Friendly fire WWII

[Rainer]

Thanks for the identification of the aircraft shot down by GULF OF MEXICO.

Another similar incident happened on 6 June 1942 in the Indian Ocean:
The Norwegian motor merchant INDRA was en route northeast of Ceylon when an aircraft circled the ship several times. As it began to dive towards the ship her AA gunners downed the aircraft. Apparently it was a British Swordfish aircraft (814 Sqn FAA, pilot SubLt Andrew Moore, RNVR), all three crew members were lost.

[Observer1940]

Hello Brian

I have just finished a list, on one list, some files I probably have already mentioned.

AIR 2/3008 Inter-Service Committee on Recognition of Aircraft. 01 January 1939 - 31 December 1940 (some late 1940 references I think)

AIR 14/853 Erroneous attack on British submarines by aircraft of No 83 Squadron operating from Lossiemouth March 1940 Original Reference IIH/241/3/865 BC/S23848

AIR 14/390 Incidents between aircraft and A.A. defences (Home): Reports regarding unidentified aircraft. 01 Aug 1940 - 31 Oct 1940 Original Reference BC/S 22583

AIR 14/389 Incidents between No. 1 Group aircraft and A.A. defences (Home). 01 July 1941 - 31 August 1941 Original Reference BC/S 22583

AIR 14/272 Routeing of bombers: reports on investigation into incident with fighters in the Firth of Forth 21st December 1939 [Original AHB / Bomber Command reference IIH/241/3/847 (BC/S23366)]

AIR 14/273 Incident with Fighters in Firth of Forth 21 Dec 1939 Proceedings of Court of Inquiry (BC/S 23366/1)

AIR 16/11 A. A. fire against friendly aircraft. 01 Oct 1939 to 31 Oct 1940

AIR 16/12 Reports of Naval A. A. fire against friendly aircraft. 01 October 1939 - 31 December 1940

AIR 16/207 Attacks by fighters on friendly aircraft: Policy of courts of enquiry and court martial 1939 Nov to 1940 February. Original Reference HCTD/S/281

AIR 16/355 Interception of enemy by aircraft not under Fighter Command control. 01 August 1940 - 30 November 1941 Original File Reference FC/S20644 [INCLUDES SOME FRIENDLY INCIDENTS]

AIR 20/2217 DIRECTORATE-GENERAL OF ORGANISATION. Aircraft shot down or damaged by our own defences. 01 September 1937 - 30 June 1945 AHB Reference VE/32 [FILE SEEMS INCOMPLETE] mainly later 1940 onward A.A. cases (one sentence per case) with Accident file number (still withheld if they were kept)

AIR 20/2285 to AIR 20/2289 Beaufighter and Other Friendly Fire Attacks and Incidents in 1941

AIR 20/4289 (GENERAL). Rules for opening fire by fighters over the sea at night. 01 Mar 1940 - 30 Nov 1940 [POLICY but has later reference to the Firth of Forth incident]

AIR 35/87 Reports of firing on friendly aircraft by allied A.A. defences. 01 Jan 1940 to 31 Dec 1940

AIR 2/9279 Attack by aircraft of 86 Squadron on Russian submarine: Court of Inquiry. 1 Jan 1944 - 31 Dec 1944

Also a search of “Recognition” as well as “Identification” might yield some files, which might have the odd incident mentioned?

ADM 1/16390 Extracts from minutes of Board of Enquiry into loss of Soviet submarine B1. 01 Jan 1944 - 31 Dec 1944

Original File References quoted by Captain Roskill’s War at Sea HMSO 1954 an official history:-
Admty L.D. 01892/41 - NOT FOUND to date
A.T. 1047/21/2/41 - NOT FOUND to date
S.L. Papers Vol. 7, File 9.
Some incidents found in ADM 205/7 Case file 00261 Volume 7 First Sea Lord’s Records, but not sure if this holds original File 9.

ADM 178/248 Various incidents involving the shooting at Allied aircraft by British personnel 1940 to 1941 (Admiralty 332/41)
[Mainly seems to deal with the shooting down of a Vichy official and possibly some foreign allied a/c]

ADM 1/11917 DEFENCES - UNITED KINGDOM (32): Reports of R.A.F. aircraft being fired on by British land and sea anti-aircraft defences 1941 to 1942 Admiralty 481/42

Other incidents at the UK Coast and at Sea in Naval War History Case volumes and Policy
Also ADM 116 and ADM 199 (Naval ‘War History Case’ volumes) have incidents recorded by R.N. convoys etc., and by UK Defences some can be found first, listed in the huge Digests in ADM 12 along with the original Naval file numbers and/or War History Case volume numbers.

Naval Filing Code 32 was UK Defence
Naval Filing Code 90 was Aviation

To find the odd cases listed amongst the Digests (Naval Indexes in huge heavy volumes), the Digest volumes for 1940 covering these codes 32 (UK Defence) and 90 (Aviation) are:-

ADM 12/1746 covering the code for UK (Home) Defences (32) 1939 to 1940 and
ADM 12/1752 covering the code for Aviation (90) 1939 to 1940.

These ADM 12 files give you a brief description with the original Navy file reference, but some incidents recorded in ADM 12 are very difficult to find in the history volumes!

Regards Mark

[Brian]

Many thanks, Mark

Delving into all these files will keep me busy during my next few visits to TNA!

Cheers
Brian

[ahafan]

Originally Posted by Brian

Many thanks, Mark

Delving into all these files will keep me busy during my next few visits to TNA!

Cheers
Brian

u do some great work brian..
sharon

[NUPPOL]

Another Friendly fire at http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...t=36509&page=2

[Observer1940]

Hello Brian

A note indicated that the following Whitley and Blenheim accidents were possibly connected (firing / incident?):-

Whitley V, N1367 of 77 Squadron Operating from Driffield landed in a field at Fecamp 3rd January 1940 F/Lt B. S.Tomlin Captain and F/O T. H. Parrott Pilot with "E.F." "L17" being Engine failure on Accident Card. Other crew were R. S. or R. E. Charlton, H. Perry and R. H. Erickson.

An Air Ministry Acc Branch note found for Whitley N1367 accident was in the file of Blenheim L8399 of 604 Squadron Captain Sgt A. W. Woolley with Blenheim L8399 place of accident Thornwood Common, Epping on 3rd January 1940. Other crew were H. J. Crump and A Penn.

I don't have the AM1180 for the Blenheim yet, perhaps a check of both the Squadron and Station ORBs might reveal more?

A 1940 online reference of the Blenheim only states:-

"The New Year got off to a good start with Sergeant Arthur Woolley suffering engine failure and having to force-land Blenheim L8399 in the vicinity of Epping on 3rd January."

Mark

[GuerraCivil]

I have read, that during the Winter/Continuation War Finnish Air Force planes faced very often "friendly" AA fire. As there were much more Soviet airplanes in air, the Finnish AA usually shot everything that flew on the sky. During the Winter War at least one Finnish fighter was shot down by Finnish AA and the pilot was killed (IIRC).

However, the Barking Creek Incident in 1939 as well as the Bodenplatte fiasco in 1945 are in my opinion the two outstanding "classics" when it comes to "friendly" fire in WW2.

[Brian]

Hi GuerraCivil

Regarding the Battle of Barking Creek, you will find my account in 'Blue on Blue' Volume One. Also an account of Finnish War errors.

Would you like a copy?

Cheers
Brian

[GuerraCivil]

What is the price of the book?
Does the book cover Spanish Civil War, which is of my special interest?

[Brian]

Hi

Brief mention of Spanish Civil War incidents in Volume One.

£10.00 plus postage.

Cheers
Brian