GQM Verluste und Unfälle.

[Lennart Andersson]

A question for you who are familiar with this material: Were all Luftwaffe losses listed in these reports? I have been trying to find Junkers G 38 GF+GG which, according to ‘common knowledge’, was destroyed in an attack by RAF Wellingtons (148 Squadron) on Athens-Tatoi on 17 May 1941. I have checked Volume 2 (RL 2-III/753) 1 January to 31 May 1941, and volume 3 (RL 2-III/754) 1 June to 31 July 1941. There are a lot of Benachrichtigungen and late entries from the earlier period in Vol 3, but still no G 38. The only losses at Athens on 17 May that are listed are one Ju 52 at ‘Athen’, four Ju 52 at ‘Athen-Kalamaki’ and an Hs 126 at ‘Athen-Tatoi’. Any suggestions?

[Jim P.]

I never found that particular incident either. The loss reports, such as they are, are not fully complete. For example, in the Med in Feb-41, there are several Stuka incidents from St.G. 1 documented in books by Chris Shores & his team and Helmut Mahlke, none of which appear in GQM losses. Also, there was the instance of a future RK recipient, also a Stuka guy, going into the drink somewhere between Greece & Crete and the pilot and maybe the Bf paddling around the ocean for a couple of days until being found and rescued. (The Bf may have gone MIA, don't remember for sure. This incident may have been in the Obermaier book on Stuka & SG RK winners.)

[Mikael Olrog]

Jim is correct, there are losses that for some reason didn't make it in to the Gen.Qu.6 loss list. There are photos sold on ebay showing the remains of GF+GG at Athens-Tatoi so the loss is confirmed.

[John Manrho]

I believe it is an illusion to assume the Gen.Qu.Mstr. losses are complete. There could be numerous reasons why it did not end up there, it was of course a clumsy process. The same goes for NVM's. Not all losses were recorded or possible NVM's were lost.

John

[Jim P.]

RL 6/122 - various pre-war losses from May & Jun-39.

[RudiS]

Thanks for the heads-up, Jim.

[hucks216]

Updated list (as of 11-05-2023) *I could be wrong but the entry in bold may be a new addition.

Tägliche Verlustmeldungen.- Flugzeugunfälle und Verluste bei allen Verbänden

RL 2-III_184 Bd. 1 - 1.Sept.39 - 2.März.40
RL 2-III_752 Bd. 1 - 31.Aug - 31.Dez.40
RL 2-III_753 Bd. 2 - 1.Jan - 30.Mai.41
RL 2-III_754 Bd. 3 - 3.Jun - 31.Juli.41
RL 2-III_755 Bd. 4 - 1.Aug - 15.Okt.41
RL 2-III_757 Bd. 6 - 16.Jan - 18.Febr.42
RL 2-III_758 Bd. 7 - 19.Febr - 20.Mar.42
RL 2-III_759 Bd. 8 - 21.Marz - 17.Apr.42
RL 2-III_1173 Bd. 2 - 3.März - 2.Juni.40
RL 2-III_1174 Bd. 3 - 3.Jun - 2.Sept.40
RL 2-III_1175 Bd. 4 - 3.Sept.40 - 2.Jan.41
RL 2-III_1176 Bd. 5 - 3.Jan. - 29.Mai.41
RL 2-III_1177 Bd. 6 - 30.Mai - 2.Aug.41
RL 2-III_1178 Bd. 7 - 3.Aug - 2.Nov.41
RL 2-III_1179 Bd. 8 - 3.Nov.41 - 2.Febr.42
RL 2-III_1180 Bd. 9 - 3.Febr - 2.Mai.42
RL 2-III_1181 Bd. 10 - 3.Mai - 2.Juli.42
RL 2-III_1182 Bd. 11 - 3.Juli - 2.Sept.42
RL 2-III_1183 Bd. 12 - 3.Sept - 2.Nov.42
RL 2-III_1184 Bd. 13 - 3.Nov.42 - 2.Jan.43
RL 2-III_1185 Bd. 14 - 3.Jan - 2.Febr.43
RL 2-III_1186 Bd. 15 - 3.Febr - 2.Mar.43
RL 2-III_1187 Bd. 16 - 3.März - 2.Apr.43
RL 2-III_1188 Bd. 17 - 3.Apr.-2.Mai 1943
RL 2-III_1189 Bd. 18 - 3.Mai - 2.Jun.43
RL 2-III_1190 Bd. 19 - 3.Jun - 2.Jul.43
RL 2-III_1191 Bd. 20 - 3.Jul - 2.Aug.43
RL 2-III_1192 Bd. 21 - 3.Aug - 2.Sep.43
RL 2-III_1193 Bd. 22 - 3.Sep - 2.Okt.43
RL 2-III_1194 Bd. 23 - 3.Okt - 2.Nov.43
RL 2-III_1195 Bd. 24 - 3.Nov- 2.Dez.43
RL 2-III_1196 Bd. 25 - 3.Dez.43 - 2.Jan.44

Tägliche Verlustmeldungen.- Flugzeugunfälle und Verluste bei den fliegenden Verbänden

RL 2-III_1199 Bd. 4 - 16.März - 1.Apr.45

Besondere Vorkommnisse (Flugzeugunfälle und Flugzeugabstürze) 1934 - 1939

RL 6_122 Bd. 4 - 2.Mai-15.Juni 1939

[RudiS]

RL 2-III_759: new to me too. Thanks for the pointer.

[andrus]

Originally Posted by Lennart Andersson

I have checked Volume 2 (RL 2-III/753) 1 January to 31 May 1941, and volume 3 (RL 2-III/754) 1 June to 31 July 1941.

Hello,

there is also:
RL 2-III/781 Tägliche Verlustmeldungen.- Flugzeugunfälle bei Schulen und sonstigen Dienststellen (Entwürfe) Bd. 1 3. Sept. 1940 - 2. Nov. 1941

Unfortunately not (yet?) available online. I also have no idea about it contents.

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Hello Andrus,

It is the same source: one batch of files lists all the losses with first line combat units, the other batch lists all the losses of non combat units (schools etc.).

Best regards, Marcel