Jewish airmen in WWII

[Franek Grabowski]

Ahoj Pavle
Could you elaborate?

[Andy Saunders]

Originally Posted by Franz von Werra

So my guess on Goodman was wrong. Too bad: I'd got the cue from a bomber pilot and I found it fascinating.

...And the mystery continues...

I may have missed something along the way on this thread (haven't read all the posts!) but is there some confusion about place of birth and status as a member of the Jewish faith?

I understood Goodman to have been born in Palestine, but that does not make him Jewish and he cannot have been "Israeli" as has already been pointed out.

If we are talking "of the Jewish faith" then I suspect they number many more than one. Offhand, one already comes to mind - and that was P/O Nelson of 74 Squadron. However, he was certainly British. "Jewish" is a faith, not a nationality! Singling out Nelson, Goodman or any other pilot, as Jewish is of little relevance really - apart from the German attitude to Jews, of course. Other than that, it is no more relevant than if they were Roman Catholic, Anglican, Non-Conformist or Atheist. Sub-dividing Battle of Britain pilots into nationality groups has some historic significance. Sub-dividing them into faith groups has none, although another forum has recently discussed which Battle of Britain pilots were Mormon. That specific discussion, though, may have other connotations connected with that particular faith.

[Franek Grabowski]

The problem is that there is both Jewish religion and Jewish nationality. This may seem a little bit muddy for British with their land law, but quite clear for those accustomed with blood law. Following the land law, only a minority of Polish the few were Poles, the rest of them born in Austro-Hungary, Germany, Russia, even Georgia (then Russia) or USA. Polish top aces would be Russian, like Skalski or Urbanowicz, or a famous test pilot - Żurakowski. Is not it a little bit ridiculous?
Jews had no country of their own, but established it post-war. You just cannot deny their right to existence as a nation. The question remains, how many Jews fought in WWII, how many considered themselves Jewish, and even how many joined IDF.

[Andy Saunders]

Franek, in the interest of clarity I would like to make it plain that I was not in any way suggesting that Israel and its Jewish population had no right to exist as a nation! I am sorry if you or anyone else thought I meant that.

[Franek Grabowski]

Andy
The problem is that such division in case of Jews is very hard, especially as there was no country of origin. There were several spurious claims made over the nationality of some pilots, hence the question.
Looking forward for your reply on the BoB forum.

[Andy Saunders]

Franek. Understood!

A pity, though, that published sources continue to state, rather ludicrously, that there was "One Israeli" in the BofB nominal roll. Years ago I spoke to Tom Gleave about this and his remarks to me were that the inclusion of this in the rolling credits at the end of the film "Battle of Britain" was entirely political with less then subtle pressure applied by HM Government on the film makers via the MOD and RAF.

[Franek Grabowski]

Well, I would say that in the light of evidence it is an utter lie, and a nonsense in spite of obvious fact there was no Israeli state at 1940. The fact of pressure is especially interesting, considering one of producers, Fisz, was an airman of Jewish faith.

[Andy Saunders]

In which case perhaps it didn't need too much pressure, anyway!

[Franek Grabowski]

Well, I do not know what was the faith of Salzman, but the origin is clear as well. Why there is a mention of pressure then? I know that Fisz pressed for inclusion of the Polish Squadron though. So sad he did not manage to film his last movie before his death.

[David Ransome]

Hi,

As far as I am aware both Fisz and Salzman had not wanted the one 'Israeli' shown in the end titles and I have a recollection that they had commented to the effect that a number of aircrew involved were Jewish by religion. I'm certain that the pressure came from the political arena and UA, for whatever reason.

Regards,

David