Photo Farman

[musec04]

Stig,


Ooops. Still a right side failure on my part.


A possible misunderstanding on my part. I had assumed only the SIA built machines had a Fiat engine. I take it that Alegi writes that other variants used the Fiat A.10 or other Fiat engines?


Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Sorry Clint

He does not mention the engines used for each of the manufacturers.

The early aircraft were equipped with unsatisfactiry engines (70 - 80 hp) from De Dion Bouton and Nagliati in Naples, but then Savoia started to use the Fiat A.10 and it seems this was the primary engine for all manufacturers.

Later in life some Savoia built aircraft also used the Colombo D.110 and/or 100 hp Anzani engines.

No mentioning of any Fiat 6 engine....or any other Fiat engine for that matter.

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hi Stig,


You state 'but then Savoia started to use the Fiat A.10 and it seems this was the primary engine for all manufacturers.' However, reading the italian wiki entry on the MF.11 the Renault engine appears to have been used quite extensively and the site states at the beginning of the war, May 1915, the MF.1914, with an 80 hp Renault, was the only aircraft with fixed armament in service.The information seems to be drawn from I Reparti..This would appear to suggest that the information provided by Alegi is incomplete (?) as following his information the first batch are Savoia built in 1915.This is backed by Davilla and Soltan.However they have the Savoia machines powered by 110 hp Colombo engines, while the Fiat A.10 are specific to the Fiat (SIA) built F.5b. Looking a tthe totals in Davilla and Soltan 601 MF.11 were built in Italy. They give 50 Macchi and since we already have 90 for the SIA 5, that would appear to leave 461 for Savoia and the minor manufacturers you list. If taken at face value it would also mean a Farman Fiat is a SIA 5 and not anything else (?). The info from Alegri you provide seems to indicate that only later Savoia built machines were powered by the 110 hp Colombo. Do you mean the MFC here or normal MF14s? Seems like a gap exists for a definitive publication on Italian Farmans. Odd that Albatros haven't done a WDF.


Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Indeed Clint

Gregory does not mention any other engines as far as I can see.
As I said he is not specific as to which aircraft manufacturer who used which engines.
The above is my interpretation only, no more - no less.

What is written in his book cannot of course, on two pages, cover the whole story regarding Italian military procurement of its MF 14s

I fully agree there needs to be much more written regarding the early Farman types, which also goes for the other brother Henri.
But it is a complicated story and much of what has been written to date is wrong or at least very confusing where each author choose not to face the problems.
Things are not made any easier when countries, like Italy, choose to call the aircraft by a different designation, not used in France. Same thing in Russia.

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hi Stig,


I found this image of MF.890 On Kees Kort's Flicker site :


https://www.flickriver.com/photos/va...2/48219829747/


Which based on the location of the radiators indicates this batch might be SIA 5 too, but definitely Fiat A.10 powered anyway. However, short of finding an italian publication dealing with Italian MF.11 derivates, which would be the ideal case I case I'll have to assume I've gone as far as I can at the moment in identifying Italian MF.11 derivatives. What would really be beneficial is seeing a photo of a machine that is definitivly a Savoia built example so as to be able to look for distinguishing characteristics.Is for example the style or placement of the serial number different on Savoia built machines or those of Macchi or indeed any other builder of the MF.11 in Italy?.


Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Sorry Clint

Maybe, but just as easily maybe not.
Kees does not say who built the aircraft. He only identifies the engine due to the radiators. If that in itself is correct or not, I don't know, but Kees is very good at what he says and makes few mistakes.

Now if what Gregory states, that the Fiat A.10 engine was the most common one, the aircraft seen (MF 890) could have been built by anyone, even Savoia.

I have no idea how to identify the different manufacturers with regard to the serial and its painting on the fuselage. Sorry, can't help you there.....either....

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of a number of Farman MF.11 including MF.194 at:


https://www.ebay.it/itm/WW1-Printed-...IAAOSwkwFgHsSM


Given the location the aircraft may belong to MF.99S


Regards,


Clint

[musec04]

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of a Farman Seaplane at Hove:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Photograp...cAAOSwu7RgQ3Co


Unfortunately neither the writing on the nacelle nor the number (if that is what it is) beneath the Union Jack are easy to read.


Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

I wonder if this one is actually a civilian Clint?

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of a British Farman F.20 serial No.277 at:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144157634...8AAOSwaR9hGoac


Regards,


Clint