Change to Ed West's posting schedule

[Revi16]

Originally Posted by nemo7777777

John Vasco, you got this very interesting 110 picture at such a low price, simply because you did your homework in Ebay and because the big bidders, who have probably more money than time, haven't simply copy-pasted the auction numbers from Ed's listings in Esteal or Gixen, with an unbeatable bid. But obviously, if it's not a problem for you that good pictures cannot be bought anymore at a fair price with a little bit of research in Ebay, it's probably because you seem to have special access to these "first-class" pics. Why is it so hard to admit it? After all, everybody here is defending one's little piece of meat. The guys in the "system" have interest that the best pics fall into this big mysterious collection, because they can access it; the guys outside the "system" have interest to be still able to find from time to time interesting pics, that havent't been noticed and managed by this "system". And the difference is obvious: the past week, I bought at reasonable prices some very interesting pics, which would have been otherwise much too expansive to buy for the normal editorial project of a normal guy. By the way, I know that all this is perfectly legal, that in a liberal system the "big pockets" guys can buy what they want, but in the end you got a monopolistic system, what is not liberal in any way. Once again, I'm thinking to these aviation reviews, which can pay 30-50 euros for a pic, but in no way 300 for a good one. And the result of this "de facto" monopolistic system, is that all these great pics cannot be seen anywhere in print, except for a few exceptions. And I dont' even speak of scans of these pics on aviation forums. Finally, I ask myself too why the sellers continue to put their pics on Ebay, as it would be probably much more interesting to make direct deals with these "big pockets" guys. That's why auction professionals, in the domain of arts or collection cars, don't like that kind of system, because in the end it kills the market.

Nemo,

It's interesting that you have just decided to start posting for this topic (7 now). You've never graced us with a question or anything intelligent to say in the past.
Now all of a sudden it's the great ebay conspiracy and your lack of funds.
Perhaps a better job would give you the ability to buy pics in todays market.

Regards,
Mike

[kormoran]

Mike,

why are you offending Nemo? It's absolutely OK that he starts
with this thread because I think that there are some dozen
of collectors and researchers who would say the same but they
don't have the heart to state here their own opinion. So I think
the opinion of Nemo is absolutely OK and essential here!
Sometimes it's better to hide his real name behind a nickname
because as a Luftwaffe insider you should know that there are
many jealous people who begrudge photos, complete collections,
publishing work and so on. If all people which agree with Nemo
would state here you would be amazed!
And people which are not concerned because the don't buy
high price photos should better stay away here... We don't
speak about peanuts. An other member of this board told some
weeks ago that it makes no sense to prepare a new book or
magazine without some funds. Mike, you are one of the first
detractors who finds fault with new publications without new and
former unpublished photos - and that's absolutely OK.
But please allow some other people who are willing to start new
projects that they have some problems with the actual system -
let's call it photo mafia
Or do you want that in 10 years only well known photos are
published again and again or that every researcher and editor
has to ask sudek's archive for some new photos? Do you want this?

Regards,
Günter.

[RalphZimmer]

Hello all!

At first, a BIG thank you, Ed, for posting these links! They are among the most interesting topics on this board – especially as they are mostly followed by further information.

I have no knowledge concerning the ways other bidders find their “objects of desire”. And as I have neither the money to start bidding (books are expensive enough) nor the time to find out myself how to find all those items on e-bay, I can only assume, that there are other ways than Ed´s postings.

Therefore the following are my assumptions – please feel free to correct me, if I am wrong!

1. As stated before on this board, it seems that “sudek13” and others have other ways to find items on e-bay. In my opinion they don´t rely (totally) on Ed´s postings. If someone has the funds to spend such (enormous) sums on certain items and the willingness to do so, he (she/they) will shurely be able to find other ways to “make his homework” and find these items. Therfore I can´t imagine how stopping those postings can affect their bids. Of course I may be wrong or there may be exceptions.
I don´t think (and I don´t hope, too!) that Ed´s posts have any consequences on the number and the quality of published photos – BUT this is only my opinion.


2. If Ed stops posting altogether, a lot of people won´t see the photos at all. I personally doubt that it is possible to post all of them after the auctions are closed. Unless someone works out another way to show those photos to a greater audience, this leaves two alternatives:
- restricted access to those photos or
- complaints on high bids.
As I stated, I have no interest in buying myself (perhaps that should make me back off this topic?). My interest lies in having the possibility to have a look on low-resolution-scans and read the related information of other members. I will be not personally affected by higher prices. Therefore my point of view is to encourage Ed to continue.

BUT: Ed alone is responsible for his posts – and he alone makes the decision to continue posting or not. We have to respect that, even if we may not share his opinion (who knows what complaints he has got?).

Therefore I am glad, that he started again.

3. Some members have other views. Even if I am happy with Ed´s decision, I respect their views. I think it´s neither fair nor helpful to get into a heated debate.

Excuse me, if I may use the wrong terms – not beeing a native speaker makes it difficult to express one´s thougts correctly.

Greetings

Ralph Zimmer

[John Vasco]

kormoran,

I agree it's OK for Nemo to state his views on here; what I don't accept is that he makes assumptions about an individual which are totally incorrect. He has no right to do that in the first place.

And I don't agree that sometimes it is better to hide his real name behind a nickname. Why? I don't. Chris Goss doesn't. Jochen Prien doesn't. Peter Cornwell doesn't. Does he hide his name so he can snipe at others with anonimity? Only he can answer that, I suppose.

And on another matter, of course there is always an expense in researching/writing a book. I do not know of a photo 'mafia'. I know only of those who are not prepared to share photos and information, and others who are willing to assist others in any way they can. Help to others goes beyond photos. It includes information that may have been gathered years ago and never put to use, but which can be used by someone else in their project. In the main, that is how the Luftwaffe research fraternity operates. It does NOT need individuals coming on here and criticising people regarding the bidding conduct on e-bay items, or claiming that there is some kind of conspiracy going on. When that happens, genuine researchers who, in the normal course of events are prepared to be helpful, will probably think 'forget about it' and no longer invest time and experience in helping others. That would be sad for those seeking assistance for their own future projects.

And high prices for photos? Peanuts? The amounts are peanuts relative to what other things cost. I mentioned previously the multi-million cost of works of art by the likes of van Gogh and his ilk, and on a subject dear to my heart, $250K for a chunk of wood metal and plastic because it was made by Gibson between 1958-1960. In fact the famous blues guitarist Peter Green's old 1959 Gibson Les Paul recently sold for $2 Million, I kid thee not. It's all relative. In that context, the cost of e-bay photos doesn't even qualify to join the pissing contest.

Unfortunately, your last paragraph implies that sudek's archive will be the only repository of photos eventually. Well, the ECPA, BAMA (orwhatever it is called nowadays), the National Archive in Kew, the Imperial War Museum, Smithsonian Institution, and other archives around the world may have some say in that.

And finally, Ralph, you did just fine in expressing your views so well.

[kormoran]

John,

I don't want to argue with you but I think some of your arguments are
nonsense! As I sayed before you can't compare apples with oranges.
I don't know if anybody here is interested in a Gibson Les Paul. I would
collect warbirds I would have enough money. The original is better as
an photo of paper
But we speak about book projects. Let's think about the following:
I plan to make a new book about Bf 109, maybe we both together.
We have no friends, we both are enthusiast but we have no great collection
and not enough money. We would need 150-200 unpublished photos!
500-1000 each at ebay because we have to outbid sudek.
75000-200000 only for buying photos. Great! I guess we have to pass.
And art of van Gogh? Yes, but I don't know so many collectors who
spend millions to have arts like van Goghs. By the way - sudek is
collecting art and supports some museums...
You mentioned some researchers. Why don't they tell these people their
opinion? I think you are the only one here. Some researchers benefit
from sudek, some not. The first group don't want to admit, the second
don't want to attack sudek, his team, his followers. We would have the
big bang here. Please remember my words about envy and distrust.
No researcher would tell us about his connections to sudek's team because
most enthusiast and former supporters would be very angry with them.

And by the way, i think the best material of the museums and archives
you've mentioned are still published. So I think, a new Luftwaffe
enthusiast will have no good chance. And if you have a look hat series
of today (I don't want to name them) - most photos are well known.
Such well "researched" publications are absolutely worthless.

Regards,
Günter.

[edwest]

I'm disappointed by the harsh words being used over this. To what end? There are no normal prices. Luftwaffe photos are not commodities like petrol or butter. They are one of a kind (except for copies made at the time, apparently to give to comrades).

eBay is not a retail store. At any given time, no one knows who's looking, and based on my personal experience, counter numbers go up and down. I suspect, but cannot prove, that aside from a dedicated core that looks daily, most others look when they can. I have no idea where these photos end up and I cannot afford all the books coming out.

As far as changing my mind, continually, that is a false statement. Some do not need my postings, apparently others want them. On occasion, I do review the issue from the standpoint of fairness.

Some people have a great deal of money, most people I know do not. I can't change that. To quote Mick Jagger: "You can't always get what you want."

I would also encourage an optimistic attitude. On the few occasions that I do bid on eBay (always for non-Luftwaffe items), my first thought is not that I'm going to beat out the 'little guy.' So this is a money issue, not a morale issue. The rules of the auction are clear on that. High bidder wins.




Regards,
Ed

[John Beaman]

OK, guys, let's calm down a little. Ed West is stating the most "common-sense" approach, so if you want to argue, that's OK, but keep it civil. Besides bitching, there's not a damn thing you can do about E-Bay, anyway, except grin and bear it, or, do not go there.

Ed does us a tremendous favor by doing his sleuthing. I've seen some things I never expected to see. Just be thankful. If you want to change the world, buy stock in E-Bay.

[Tony Jones]

Hi

All you have to do is to go to google, type in ww.ebay.de then flugzeug in the box, click on Militaria and then 1918-45 and you can do just what Ed West does and for my money anyone else that wants to bid for photos does this anyway.

Tony

[nemo7777777]

Thanks, Kormoran, you perfectly expressed my mind. For the past three-four years, we could have waited to see tons of new books with inedite pictures with the Ebay system making now lot of old material available, but in the end what we see is that the best pics fall in a hole and are not to be seen to the public of the enthusiasts. What will happen to these pics in the long term is also completely unsure. Of course, it would not be worrying, if a "de facto" mysterious monopole was not being built. And you're right also,Kormoran, about the book projects: for instance, today it is simply impossible with this system to prepare a new book on the 109, not only for the private researchers, but also for most of the aviation publishing houses, which are usually small structures with low budgets.

[nemo7777777]

By the way, if it's only for research, it's perfectly possible to discuss Ebay pics, like on the Axis History Forum, without easing too much the easy life of the "big pockets" guys: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...3596&start=900