Libau 28 October 1944

[Laurent Rizzotti]

On 28 October 1944, II/JG 54 claimed 14 Il-2 in 12 minutes (11.44-11.56) near Libau, East Prussia. Maj Erich Ruddorffer claimed 9, the 5 other being claimed by 3 other German aces (Uffz Hugo Broch (2), Fw Kurt Tangermann (2) and Lt Gerhard Thyben).

Does anyone have a clue about the attacked Soviet unit and the real losses ?

Thanks in advance

Laurent

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello, Laurent!

14:12 Moscow Time (12:12 CET) 24 Pe-2 (12.GPBAP) with escort of 28 Yak-9 (14.GIAP) and 14 Yak-9 (21.IAP) made an attack against transports in Libava (Libau) port without losses. About the same time 26 Il-2 (8.GShAP) and 22 Il-2 (47.ShAP) with escort of 30 Yak-9/LaGG-3 (9.IAP) made the same mission. Losses during dogfight were 3 Il-2, also 2 Yak-9 (21.IAP) collided in air on return flight; claims were 8 FW-190 (really 1 or more?).

It seems Ruddorffer and his men had more rich fantasy that day than their Soviet opponents.

Regards,
Andrey

[marsyao]

it looks like major Ruddorffer's overclaims did not limit in North Africa

[Nikita Egorov]

Originally Posted by marsyao

it looks like major Ruddorffer's overclaims did not limit in North Africa

Surely not:-))) Especially, it can be detected during Rudorffer's "major successes", such as on November 6, 1943...

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Thanks, Andrey. I was guessing something like that. My source claimed that Ruddorffer became known as the "fighter of Libau" by Soviet pilots. In reality they probably didn't notice anything special this day.

By the way, are you the same Andrey Kuznetsov that had much knwoledge about the Soviet Navy on "Norway on WWII" and "Warsailors" forum ?

[marsyao]

Originally Posted by Nikita Egorov

Surely not:-))) Especially, it can be detected during Rudorffer's "major successes", such as on November 6, 1943...

more details please ?

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello, Laurent!

Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti

By the way, are you the same Andrey Kuznetsov ...

Yes.

Regards,
Andrey

[Nikita Egorov]

Judging by Tony Wood's listings on November 6, 1943 the following jagdgruppe claimed this number of Soviet fighters in the vicinity of Kiev:
II/JG54 - Yaks - 22 (including 13 by Rudorrfer and 5 by Tangerman)
La-5 - 3
IV/JG54 - La-5 - 5
I/JG51 - Yak-9 - 3
La-5 - 3

Actuall losses for 256 IAD and 8 GIAD (which participated in the combats around Kiev on that day were: 3 Yak-7 and 3 La-5 shot down in combats, 2 Yak-7 and 2 La-5 failed to return from missions and 3 La-5 damaged due to enemy fighters, conducted belly landings on friendly territoty.

Please note that definition "failed to return" does not necesserily mean that they were shot down by fighters...

Originally Posted by marsyao

more details please ?

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

Question for Andrey K about the Oct 28 mission and units. As far as I know all the other units are from VVS KBF (Baltic Fleet Air Force), but isn't 14 GIAP an "army aviation" (VVS RKKA) unit? During Vyborg operation and earlier it was in 275 IAD, 13 VA strength.

How common it was to see mixed army/navy Soviet flying formations? This is the first one I have read of.


Regards,
Kari

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello, Kari!

Originally Posted by Kari Lumppio

As far as I know all the other units are from VVS KBF (Baltic Fleet Air Force), but isn't 14 GIAP an "army aviation" (VVS RKKA) unit?

How common it was to see mixed army/navy Soviet flying formations? This is the first one I have read of.

14.GIAP (ex-13.IAP) was the navy regiment, from 1943 was in 9.ShAD, from autumn 1944 in 8.MTAD (both were in VVS KBF). His main task at that time was exactly an escort of 12.GPBAB.

“Non-navy” escort of navy air units wasn’t a common practice, but happened from time to time. For example, in Nov.1943 57.GIAP (329.IAD, 4.Air Army) made some escort missions with 23.ShAP (VVS ChF).


Regards,
Andrey