KG 53 night claims

[Laurent Rizzotti]

According to the Luftwaffe night fighter claim books, 6./KG 53 scored four night victories in May 1942:

16 May, 2210 hrs: Uffz Mistler claimed a TB-3 near "Borogobusch"
19 May, 0045 hrs: an "Abschuß", no more details
21 May, 0010 hrs: an "Abschuß", no more details
29 May, 2255 hrs: Fw Bauer claimed a TB-3 4 km east of Uschakova

I found today a Russian website with detailed story of the TB-3 unit that was in May 1942 called 1 GvADD, and losses of TB-3 to "enemy fighters" were signaled in the night of 16-17 May (2), 20 May and 30 May. They seem to correspond with above claims nicely. The website is here: http://retrovtap.ru/?page_id=662

I wonder if a scan of Luftwaffe losses data base can help to complete the names of above claimants (at least Mistler, Bauer will probably return many results).

[Thomas H]

Hi Laurent,

In Mai 1942 Waldemar Teige and his crew (6./KG53) claimed 7 kills, all being TB-3.

16./17.05.1942 - TB-3 - Dorogobush
16./17.05.1942 - TB-3 - Dorogobush
16./17.05.1942 - TB-3
18./19.05.1942 - TB-3
20./21.05.1942 - TB-3
23./24.05.1942 - TB-3
29./30.05.1942 - TB-3

The four claims you show could all have been made by Obfw. Teige.

Regards, Thomas

[Tim O.]

Hi Laurent

Maybe not relevant to your research but I have a Flugbuch to a member of the crew of Leutnant Horn of 5./KG53, which shows the following claims:

1 TB3 12th May 1942
2 TB3 22nd May 1942
1 TB3 29-30th May 1942

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Thanks to both of you. It seems there were far more claims that I know just for these two crews.

Thomas, can I ask you your source, please ?

Could the Uffz Mistler and Fw Bauer above be linked to the Teige or Horn crews by somebody ?

[Thomas H]

Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti

Thomas, can I ask you your source, please?

Luftwaffe im Focus nr. 5

Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti

Could the Uffz Mistler and Fw Bauer above be linked to the Teige or Horn crews by somebody ?

Not to the Teige crew. The twelve claims Teige and his crew made are on his name and not on the name of any of the other crew members. So if claims are on Mistler and Bauer it would in theory mean it was their crew. Depending on the source, both gentlemen could also have been part of somebody else his crew, but made a record that they pulled the trigger.

Regards, Thomas

[Thomas H]

On a side note.

5./KG53 and 6./KG53 are often mentioned as been involved in night fighting in 1942. On the first of February 1943. FF Leutnant Meindl (4./KG53) received his clasp with star pennant while being part of "Nah-Nachtjagdschwarm-Lft. 1". (Source: his Urkunde)
This could be proof that 4./KG53 was also participating in night fighting but also shows that it didn't stop in May 1942. I don't know if any claims were made after May 1942 by II/KG53?

Regards, Thomas

[Laurent Rizzotti]

I know that in the Luftwaffe the rule was to let the claims to the "boss" (wingmen has no share in kills done with their Rotte or Schwarm leader in most cases), but here here the He 111 pilots had no weapons to fire, except if they used field modified aircraft, so the gunner did the firing while the pilot did the positioning.

Thomas, thanks, actuallu I have Luftwaffe in Focus 5 but I completely forgot this article.

In it crew members of Teige are identified as Fw Rieck, Glonner and Galisch.

And I had also forgotten that Teige was killed in October 1942, in my memory I mixed it with Arnold Döring that also claimed night kills with KG 53 (including 3 TB-3 claimed in one night over Stalingrad, so the "night fighter flights" did not stop in May 1942) and then went to become a JG 300 and then a NJG pilot, claiming his two final kills during operation Gisela in March 1945. AFAIK he survived the war, but I don't know if his interesting story is told in details somewhere ?

By the way, I find interesting the fact that all night claims listed in this thread for Teige, Horn and Döring were for TB-3s, while Soviet used many types at night. Maybe the big size and slow speed of the TB-3 allowed the He 111s to intercept them while the other Soviet types were far more difficult to see and then to engage successfully. And this brings me an idea: could KG 53 have flown this "night patrols" only in areas where TB-3s were flying ? If the TB-3s were withdrawn in June 1942 (and it seems to me that the Soviet unit I was talking in my first post at least did change of targets, so maybe also of area, and then returned in August in Stalingrad area), that could explain why the night scharm was returned to bombing duties.

[NagaSadow]

Hello!

I think the TB-3s were used to supply partisans and cut off Soviet forces in the rearward area of A.O.K. 4 around Dorogobuzh and Schilowka in Mid 1942. The TB-3s were probably withdrawn after the destruction of the Soviet troops in early June.

Regards

[Tim O.]

I am not sure what, if any, significance it has but I noticed that Horn flew a 4. Staffel machine '+IM' for some of his night hunts during this period, even though the crew were from 5. Staffel. The 'kills' all look to have been made by '+AN'.

[oquaig]

Originally Posted by NagaSadow

Hello!

I think the TB-3s were used to supply partisans and cut off Soviet forces in the rearward area of A.O.K. 4 around Dorogobuzh and Schilowka in Mid 1942. The TB-3s were probably withdrawn after the destruction of the Soviet troops in early June.

Regards

Yes, they were supplying Belov's cavalry corps and IV Airborne Corps and the partisans in the "Dorogobuzh" pocket. TB-3's flew in a battalion of antitank guns on May 9. Operation "Hanover" was launched on 24 May. During this period there were heavy rains which disrupted the air supply operation. The first phase of the operation was over by 1 June and it developed into a pursuit of Belov's corps which escaped to the east after 21 June. It was an important mission for the Germans as it helped to stabilize the Rzhev salient. That would explain the extra Luftwaffe effort at night.


oquaig