ID of Ju 88 lost on 18th August 1944 near Le Puy

[Nick Beale]

Adriano, the MATAF daily summary that I sent you places Nicholson's Ju 88 claim at "T-1968" which is bT1968 on France Lambert Zone 3 grid. This translates to 43° 46' 46'' N, 5° 03' 30'' E, a point on the banks of the River Durance, 2.75 km SE of the centre of Orgon (Bouches-du-Rhône) and about 125 km south of Valence aerodrome. That's a distance that a P-51 could cover in about 20 minutes at cruising speed.

Frank's MTO list times Nicholson's claim at 0925–1230 (which is, I guess, local time = GMT+2).

ULTRA CX/MSS/T281/39 (file TNA HW 5/566) says:

From KABEK ((KG)) 26 on 18/8:
Low level attack by 4 Mustangs on Valence at 0607/18/8. 1 Ju 88 total loss, 1 gantry crane (total loss. casualties – nil.

NOTE: The time in that message is GMT.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

NICK:
Firstly thank you immensely for your kind answer here...and my humble appologies (and ignorance) for not visualizing the files you enclosed into the message and I had not seen until reading your post above. I then clicked on a link and they appeared to me just seconds ago! So I hadn't seen them previously...hence my mistake and confusion...

We thought initially that Hornsby's machine was hit by "debris" from a Ju 88 he may have claimed "on the air"..but now this is ALL clarified...he claimed a He 111 (we do have images of this wreck) and hit by ground-fire (AA) at Valence...and bailed out near Le Puy....

Understood that Johnson first claimed a Ju 52 on the ground at Valence and then, whilst probably returning (without his leader who had bailed out) he claimed a Ju 88 on the air, near Orgon (now found the town, thanks again Nick!) around 08:00hs.

I shall pass to Gilles and Hornsby's son the MATAF material you sent me Nick! Our GRATITUDE for your kind help and clarification...We had a different story and how things are getting clear and more precise thanks to the kind help of you and Frank.

FRANK: I was just sending you a message when I got your reply here....Our GRATITUDE for kind help.

Most humbly yours,
Adriano

[Frank Olynyk]

Adriano,

Note that Hornsby's aircraft in August was an F-6A. The 111th TRS does not appear to have received F-6C's until sometime in October.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Frank Olynyk

Adriano,

Note that Hornsby's aircraft in August was an F-6A. The 111th TRS does not appear to have received F-6C's until sometime in October.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Thank you, Frank. That expains the daily summary's reference to "30 S6A's of 111 Sqn." — it must be a typo for F-6A's.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Hello Nick and Frank.

Frank did you get me e-mail?

We believe that the serial may be:
42-103329 ... 42-103778
North American P-51C-5-NT Mustang
42-103415 condemned from enemy action Aug 18, 1944

Some machines from this "Batch" were converted to F-6C...am not sure if this particular machine was...

Adriano

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Correction: "me e-mail" > "my e-mail"

baumgartner_asv@yahoo.com.br

Adriano

[Adriano Baumgartner]

And according to Gilles Collaveri (who is on the Loop), the machine flown by Lieutanant Hornsby Jr crashed close to Orange..so instead of flying WEST to "Le Puy(en-Velay)" where Hornsby initially thought he had bailed out (according to his son Memorablia), the formation flew South...(maybe trying to reach their own lines)...

So the place is not near Lyons (which may be a Typpo) neither Lions (close to Marseille) either...(some 110 km away).

But thanks to you (Frank and Nick), Gilles and Hornsby Family, we are getting a clear idea now of what happened and what was claimed by whom...

THANK YOU AGAIN for all help and kind support.

Adriano