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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#1
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JG Information
Hello everyone
I am trying to track down information regarding a specific staffel that was flying toward the Brest Penninsula at approximately 2035h on July 13,1944. Twelve Fw 190's were engaged near L'Aigle by 12 RCAF 441 Sqdn. Spitifre IX's with the Fw's losing 10 aircraft and 1 damaged, while the Canadians did not suffer a loss. I am seeking any information re: this staffel, websites, addresses or people to contact who may further my research. Any information would be gratefully accepted. Thank you for any help you can provide. Joe |
#2
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Re: JG information needed
Hi Joe:
I moved your thread to here as it seemed more suited. Your Fws may have been from III./JG 2. They had 12 machines active in the area and made one claim at 2030 hours. They lost 2, Uffz Kolmanitsch safe, Ofhr von Richtofen KIA. |
#3
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Re: JG information needed
John
Kolmanitsch was apparently from another combat, being a Me 109 pilot from II/JG2. Anyway, even if there were some more losses, that are unrecorded in known papers, it still looks Canucks did some serious overclaim. Of course, I would be happy to be proven otherwise. |
#4
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Re: JG information needed
Hi, guys.
According to the Summarische Verlustemeldungen for this date, the following losses were sustained by elements of JG 2: Stab: None I. Gruppe: None II. Gruppe: 1 aircraft category 4 "Destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, observed by enemy" 1 aircraft category 21 "Damaged without enemy action on operational flight" No pilots were killed but a pilot of non-officer rank was wounded in the category 21 accident, (this probably then not being Uffz Kolmanitsch, as John Beaman indicates he was not wounded, and would robably be the pilot of the category 4 aircraft) III. Gruppe: 5 aircraft category 4 "Destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, observed by enemy" 1 aircraft category 20 "Destroyed without enemy action on operational flight" One pilot of non-officer rank was killed in one of the category 4 losses, this then probably being Ofhr von Richthofen. Destroyed does not necessary mean a total destruction of pilot AND aircraft, but rather a loss percentage of above 50%, and the term damaged thus implies a loss of less than or equal to 50%. So - if no other sources are available, we will probably get further information on only two of theses losses, one of the III. Gruppe category 4 losses and the category 21 II. Gruppe loss. Seems the canadians only overclaimed by about 100% this day, I guess that is not too bad for a rather large furball. Regards, Andreas |
#5
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Re: JG information needed
Hi Andreas,
A little bit off the subject, but could you please explain the damaged/destroyed catagories you used. I haven't seen any like them before. Thanks, Walt |
#6
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Re: JG information needed
Hello every body
In the Jean-Bernard Frappé book "La luftwaffe face au débarquement allié" we have for july 13th a luftwaffe claim at 2035 Ofw Munsche III./JG2, a spitfire near Vimoutiers and for the luftwaffe losses for this day : A fw 190 from the II./JG1 A Bf 109 G6 "9 white" wrkn 163831 Uffz Kurt Senger (KIA) 7./JG1 near West of Epaignes A bf 109 G6 wrkn 165865 Uffz Erwin Kolmantisch (injuried) 5./JG2 Montlognon A Fw 190 A8 wrkn 730909 Ofhr Ruthart Von Richtofen (KIA) 10./JG2 South East Argentan A bf 109 G6/U4/AS "6 white" wrkn 441161 Lt Dieter Sachse (injuried) 1./JG5 near Caen A Fw 190 A6 "15 blue" wrkn 530923 (or 730923) Uffz Hermann grad (injuried) 4./JG26 Bernay A Fw 190 A8 "7 blue" wrkn 170313 (or 170319) Ogfr Helmut Merten (KIA) 4./JG26 WSW Bernay Friendly Quote:
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#7
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Re: JG information needed
Quote:
The Summarische Verlustemeldungen were reports made out that summarized the losses for a given unit in a spreadsheet-like report. These consisted of two types of sheets, one for the aircraft losses, and one for the personnel losses. Please see the images below. http://www.ahs.no/discussion_images/...1 Seite 02.jpg http://www.ahs.no/discussion_images/...3 Seite 01.jpg I have entered these in my database, and as my website has several language options, I have also translated the categories used, the original german ones shown below with the english translation: 1 durch Feindeinwirkung vermißt Missing due to enemy action 2 durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Flakbeschuß total Destroyed by anti-aircraft artillery on operational flight 3 durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Flakbeschuß beschädigt Damaged by anti-aircraft artillery on operational flight 4 durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Bordwaffenbeschuß total mit Feindbeobachtung Destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, observed by enemy 5 durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Bordwaffenbeschuß total ohne Feindbeobachtung Destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, not observed by enemy 6 durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Bordwaffenbeschuß beschädigt mit Feindbeobachtung Damaged by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, observed by enemy 7 durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Bordwaffenbeschuß beschädigt ohne Feindbeobachtung Damaged by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, not observed by enemy 8 durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Infanteriebeschuß total Destroyed by gunfire from enemy infantry on operational flight 9 durch Feindeinwirkung auf Feindflug durch Infanteriebeschuß beschädigt Damaged by gunfire from enemy infantry on operational flight 10 durch Feindeinwirkung auf eigenem Kriegsgebiet (Bodenverluste) durch Bombenabwurf total Destroyed on the ground by enemy bomb 11 durch Feindeinwirkung auf eigenem Kriegsgebiet (Bodenverluste) durch Bombenabwurf beschädigt Damaged on the ground by enemy bomb 12 durch Feindeinwirkung auf eigenem Kriegsgebiet (Bodenverluste) durch Bordwaffenbeschuß total Destroyed on the ground by gunfire from enemy aircraft 13 durch Feindeinwirkung auf eigenem Kriegsgebiet (Bodenverluste) durch Bordwaffenbeschuß beschädigt Damaged on the ground by gunfire from enemy aircraft 14 durch Feindeinwirkung auf eigenem Kriegsgebiet (Bodenverluste) durch Erdbeschuß total Destroyed on the ground by enemy gunfire from ground forces 15 durch Feindeinwirkung auf eigenem Kriegsgebiet (Bodenverluste) durch Erdbeschuß beschädigt Damaged on the ground by enemy gunfire from ground forces 16 durch Feindeinwirkung Sonstige total Destroyed by other enemy action 17 durch Feindeinwirkung Sonstige beschädigt Damaged by other enemy action 18 insgesamt durch Feindeinwirkung total Total number of aircraft destroyed by enemy action 19 insgesamt durch Feindeinwirkung beschädigt Total number of aircraft damaged by enemy action 20 ohne Feindeinwirkung mit Feindauftrag total Destroyed without enemy action on operational flight 21 ohne Feindeinwirkung mit Feindauftrag beschädigt Damaged without enemy action on operational flight 22 ohne Feindeinwirkung ohne Feindauftrag (Betriebsverluste) total Destroyed without enemy action on non-operational flight 23 ohne Feindeinwirkung ohne Feindauftrag (Betriebsverluste) beschädigt Damaged without enemy action on non-operational flight 24 insgesamt ohne Feindeinwirkung total Total number of aircraft destroyed without enemy action 25 insgesamt ohne Feindeinwirkung beschädigt Total number of aircraft damaged without enemy action I used the english translation in my previous post. Regards, Andreas |
#8
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Re: JG information needed
Andreas, looks outstanding. What is the completness and coverage of those reports? Also, 50% overclaim is something about average for intense scraps.
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#9
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Re: JG information needed
Coverage:
All units reporting to the GenQu 6 Abt under the designation Fliegende Verbände. Thus all frontline units and several others in duty at the front. Timespan: 21.06.1941 through January 1945. Regards, Andreas |
#10
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Re: JG information needed
Those docs are also available for april 40 campaign nd French-campaign 40,
remi |
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