Erich Hartmann and Messerschmitt Bf 109K-4

[kennethklee]

I saw a Hasegawa model kit for a Messerschmitt Bf 109K-4 in the purported markings of Erich Hartmann. Based on the historical references I have read to date, I recall Hartmann never flew a Bf 109K-4 operationally, only the Bf 109G-series (plus a Junkers Ju 87 that he attempted to ferry to the Eastern front with a near-disastrous outcome that became comical with time). Am I recalling the literature in error?

Thanks,
Kenneth

[Micke D]

From what I have read, I think you are correct.
Some argue that Hartmann as an Expert would have flown the latest planes but from what I have read his latest plane was a Bf 109G-10.
I’m not sure that anyone had their own plane in spring 1945; I guess that they flew what ever plane they could.

[yogybär]

Originally Posted by kennethklee

[..]a Junkers Ju 87 that he attempted to ferry to the Eastern front with a near-disastrous outcome that became comical with time). [...]

Can you shed some light on this episode, please?

Reg. 109: Right, his last Me was a 109G-10.

[kennethklee]

Originally Posted by yogybär

Can you shed some light on this episode, please?

Reg. 109: Right, his last Me was a 109G-10.

According to Toliver and Constable's The Blond Knight of Germany, after he completed his officer and flight training, Erich Hartmann asked to fly himself to his assigned unit, preferably a Bf-109 that needed to be ferried to his unit. No Bf 109's were immediately scheduled to be shipped out to his area, but the local air commandant (forgot exactly where this was) told him some Junkers Ju 87's was needed near his destination and he could fly one. Despite Hartmann's lack of familiarity with the Ju 87, he agreed. As he lined up and taxied out, the Ju 87 lost controllability (not sure if the plane or Hartmann was to blame) and Hartmann taxied the Ju 87 into a flight controller's hut, creating confetti of the hut's documents. I understand Hartmann received a tongue-lashing from the commandant, but at least no one suffered physical injury. The situation was enhanced when a fellow newly-graduated cadet turned back and landed another Ju 87 with a misfiring and smoking engine. Hartmann and his fellow new pilot went to the front in a Junkers Ju 52 flown by another pilot.

I know the source is considered somewhat suspect by some, but, although I forget the immediate reference, I recall reading an interview with Hartmann conducted by another writer that confirmed the essentials of the incident above.

[yogybär]

Thanks for the story!

Originally Posted by kennethklee

[...]the Ju 87 lost controllability (not sure if the plane or Hartmann was to blame) and Hartmann taxied the Ju 87 into a flight controller's hut, [...]

Well, I think everyone can make his mind on wether it was the man or the machine .

[kennethklee]

http://books.google.com/books?id=4Lr...esult#PPA32,M1

I found this Google preview of The Blond Knight of Germany and pointed it roughly to the pages that describe Hartmann's inauspicious Ju 87 experience. If the URL does not take you directly there, scroll down or up 1-2 pages and you should see it. Have fun!

Kenneth

[tango35]

Hartmann never flew the K-4 ( or where are the evidences ?? like a flying book ), but he flew the G-10 type and both types came nearly same time from the factories to the troops and they looked nearly the same, so that could be the reason for the myth of the K-4 flying.
I dont think that an very very experienced pilot would choose an aircraft with so many technical failures for an airbattle where he has to concentrate on the enemy and not on his aircraft. He has to trust in his aircraft, and the K-4 wasnt an aircraft a pilot could trust.

[Kutscha]

the K-4 wasnt an aircraft a pilot could trust.

Can you expand on this comment tango35.

[kennethklee]

Originally Posted by tango35

I dont think that an very very experienced pilot would choose an aircraft with so many technical failures for an airbattle where he has to concentrate on the enemy and not on his aircraft. He has to trust in his aircraft, and the K-4 wasnt an aircraft a pilot could trust.

Like Kutscha, I am curious about your comments on the Bf 109K-4. You seem to characterize the aircraft as unreliable with "many technical failures". Could you kindly elaborate for us? My curiousity is heightened because in general I have found much less documentation of this variant's flying characteristics and operational record compared to the other 109 versions.

Thanks,
Kenneth

[FalkeEins]

..an extract from Lorant/Goyat "Bataille dans le ciel d'Allemagne" ...(my translation)

At Kleinkarolinenfeld, around ten pilots who no longer had aircraft piled into a truck at dawn on 27 April 1945 in order to drive to the airfield at Bad Wörishofen and take delivery of Messerschmitt 109s fresh out of the factories. Fw. Arnulf Meyer (9. Staffel) never forgot the scenes they witnessed that day:

Rows of Messerschmitt 109s and Focke-Wulf 190s lined up around the airfield perimeter, others out in the open (!) under the odd camouflage net. Teams of oxen in yokes in the midst of all this enabled the aircraft to be moved around without utilizing any manpower or fuel… At least one hundred fighters from the assembly lines were dispersed around the field. The Officer that met us showed us the latest sub-types to be delivered: Focke-Wulfs with in-line engines and in particular the Messerschmitt Bf 109 K, an improved sub-type of our “Gustav” model. There was bustling activity on the field. Aircraft were landing and taking off constantly. There was no airfield protection Rotte in the air. Our surprise was even greater when we were told that thirty brand new aircraft were due to arrive at the depot that day if the necessary pilots to ferry them in could be found. We were presented to the airfield commander who had set up his office in a comfortably appointed wooden shack: a fatherly Major who gave us a pleasant welcome. Of course we wanted to take the Bf 109 Ks… He asked us for our papers indicating our various type ratings but after scrutinizing them, he handed them back with a shake of the head and simply said: “sorry, I can’t give you any K-4s. You’ve only flown the G-10, so take the G-10s!”
We tried to explain to him that whether they were the G or K variant, they were still Messerschmitt 109s and any mods were almost certainly to be of a minor nature, unlikely to impact on the handling qualities of the aircraft. He did not appear particularly convinced by our arguments, but I noted how keenly he eyed us smoking our American cigarettes. These were retrieved from US prisoners and our Spieß always had them in his stocks. As naturally as possible, I offered the Major one of these cigarettes. His face lit up. Just for good measure, I left a barely started packet on his desk. He thanked me and told us that he was going to see what he ‘‘could do”. In the minute that followed, more packets of cigarettes changed hands and in this way we soon had authorization to take the Messerschmitt Bf 109 K-4s!
We went to select our Messerschmitts in the company of the line chief, who asked us what our destination airfield was. The fuel crisis had also reached this field. Our aircraft were fueled with enough for thirty minutes flying time, which was largely sufficient to get back to Kleinkarolinenfeld. On the other hand the armament magazines were empty. We were given parachutes and life jackets. Suddenly we saw a car drawing up and out climbed the depot commander. He told us in a voice bereft of emotion that he was not sorry that we were taking the 109 Ks. Then he read the text of a teleprinter message he had just received. The presence of American troops and tanks was reported ten kilometers from Bad Wörishofen and he was ordered to immediately destroy all the aircraft housed on the airfield. The Major explained to us that the 109s were easier to blow up than the 190s, as they carried as standard a delayed-action 3 kg explosive charge in the fuselage housed next to the fuselage fuel tank. We smoked a last cigarette together with the officer. The imminent debacle seemed more of a relief to him than anything else. He had fought during the First World War and had been wounded but was of the opinion that the disaster befalling our country was of a much more serious nature on this occasion. He hoped that we would soon be back among our families and that we would not risk our lives pointlessly. He started up his car and drove off.
My first takeoff in the Bf 109 K held no surprises. The aircraft was poorly trimmed and the compass was not functioning, which meant that I had to follow my comrades blindly. A typical product of our war industry in 1945: the instruments were incorrectly calibrated and there was nothing coming through the oxygen mask. Fortunately our flight level did not exceed 1,000 meters. We all landed without incident at Kleinkarolinenfeld. Happily enough the brakes worked…