The Top US Fighter Group?

[aaatripp]

Please refer to the link below to the 354FG website home page:

http://www.354thpmfg.com/

In the center of the page, you'll see a link to a page entitled "Facts and Figures". This will provide some of the data discussed earlier in this thread. It will be interesting to find out the source of this score sheet....was it the 354FG Public Affairs ofc?

The 354FG lost many victory records during the disastrous flooding at one of their later bases (2-5) in France (Gael, Orconte, Perthes or Rosieres-en-Haye??).

If Frank Olynyk monitors this thread: Frank, any thoughts on the true total of aerial victories for the 354FG & 353FS? Many believe these were the top two scoring FG & FS in the ETO.....

Thanks all.....
Tripp

[aaatripp]

Here is the scoresheet: Facts and Figures

(this can be found in History in the Sky) Frank Olynyk: has this been verified as an accurate tally of group official records?

Thanks,
Tripp

[Alfred.MONZAT]

This list only show FG from the ETO (elseif the 49th and 31st would appears in it) and the reason of the order is hard to identify.

[drgondog]

The victory credit totals at USAFHRC updates based on solid evidence submitted and verifiable from such sources as LW KUJ reports attached to MACRs, enemy intelligence, etc but the databases are impossible to get to. Frank Olynyk, Jack Cook have contributed to such additions. I have also placed three into the record for what it is worth.

That said, USAF 85 was the foundation and the bedrock for all subsequent fighter victory air credits. The 8th AF Victory Credits Board posted both air and ground scores in June 1945. It was the basis for the USAF Study 85 Air Victory Credits.

The 354th totals in USAF 85 are 599 but Frank Olynyk was able to retrieve (IIRC) the April, 1945 'missing' IX AF VCB confirmations ~ 37. The ground score credit validation process was spotty in comparison between ETO/MTO and PTO/CBI theatres - so the answer to 'top scorer for WWII' is an interesting exercise in comparing contrasting, impeachable, and incomplete data.

Jack identified the top US Victory Credit Fighter Group (tongue in cheek) by 'press' when he identified the 4th and 56th FG - but the answer to Top US FG - all wars - is the 4th FG when you bring the Korean War 4th FIW into the picture.

As to all other 'air to air' - by virtue of USAF 85, it is 56th FG at 665.5, 49th FG 664, 354 FG 637 , 357 FG 595, 31st FG 582

[Frank Olynyk]

I have not been able to locate the missing XIX TAC VCB reports. I compiled the list of late war 354th FG victories from the daily OpSums (Mission Reports) of the 354th, which can be found both at USAFHRA at Maxwell AFB and the National Archives NARA II facility in College Park, Maryland. I also found at NARA II two notebooks which listed all the missions of the 354th, number of planes from each squadron, leader, target, claims and losses (it also notes when MIA personnel returned). One of the notebooks also listed the various VCB reports with 354th FG claims, and the number of claims in each report. It listed the missing VCB reports, and the total number of claims matched the unreported claims that I found in the OpReps. I therefore concluded that all these missing claims were confirmed by the VCB reports.

I am still looking for the missing VCB reports. The only place I can think of that might have them would be Quesada's World War 2 papers, and I do not know where they are located. Possibly the family of a member of the VCB might also have copies of the reports.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[pdame141]

Originally Posted by Frank Olynyk

I have not been able to locate the missing XIX TAC VCB reports. I compiled the list of late war 354th FG victories from the daily OpSums (Mission Reports) of the 354th, which can be found both at USAFHRA at Maxwell AFB and the National Archives NARA II facility in College Park, Maryland. I also found at NARA II two notebooks which listed all the missions of the 354th, number of planes from each squadron, leader, target, claims and losses (it also notes when MIA personnel returned). One of the notebooks also listed the various VCB reports with 354th FG claims, and the number of claims in each report. It listed the missing VCB reports, and the total number of claims matched the unreported claims that I found in the OpReps. I therefore concluded that all these missing claims were confirmed by the VCB reports.

I am still looking for the missing VCB reports. The only place I can think of that might have them would be Quesada's World War 2 papers, and I do not know where they are located. Possibly the family of a member of the VCB might also have copies of the reports.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Frank:

You mentioned the 354th OpSums, but I wasn't clear whether those are the same as the unit war diary available from USAFHRA.

I have the 368th FG war diary on microfilm and when I had more time (many years ago as a student) I found references to/copies of VCB confirmations relating to aerial victories of the 368th's pilots, including my Great Uncle's lone aerial victory on 8 December 1944.

Specifically, I have the VCB report of 10 Dec 1944 regarding the claims on 8 Dec 1944 and the confirmation report on 12 Feb 1945.

I would scan it for reference, but the copy I have is almost illegible (looks like it was a multi-generation copy of a faint original). Searching for these would likely be tedious work, and the existence of such confirmations might vary widely based on unit record-keeping practices, but it might turn up the lost XIX TAC reports relating to the 354th's time in the 9th AF.

I hope this isn't redundant and might be a fruitful line of inquiry.

Best regards,
Paul Dame

[drgondog]

Paul - the missing VC's are April/May 1945 for XIX TAC.

Extrapolating the 354FG Claims to VCB awards would yield 'close' with most likely movement from Claim to Credit in moving Probable to Damaged.