The Top US Fighter Group?

[Jim Oxley]

Was it the 4th FG or the 56th? And would it be possible to post their claim totals? Many thanks.

[Csaba B. Stenge]

Jim, if you are counting just the air to air victories, the top scorer was the 354th FG with 701 kills and the second was Zemke's Wolfpack with 677. If you are counting the ground successes as wel, the top list is different:
1005 and a half for the 56th FG, 1002 for the 4th FG and the 354th is the third (according to my knowledge)

[Jim Oxley]

I thought that the 56th FG was the top scoring group in Europe. But then I came across a book by Grover C. Hall titled "1000 destroyed", which claims that the 4th FG was the top unit in the 8th AF.

[John Beaman]

Jim: Grover Hall wrote that book soon after the war before the decision was made to count only air victories, hence the claim.

However, it is one of the best reads, isn't it?

[Jim Oxley]

So in just air claims the 4th was the top unit? That doesn't gel with what Csaba has posted. Either way it is an excellent read - one of the best unit histories I've come across.

[John Beaman]

No, what I meant was that Hall, in the book, was claiming the 4th was tops and that included the ground credits. Csaba's air-to-air list sounds right, although I do not have the "official" credits easily at hand.

[JACK COOK]

The top group all depends on your point of view. I think aerial kills is just one fact to consider. There were so many really top notch groups (like the 325th, 357th, 355th, 18th, 49th, 475th or 354th) I really have a hard time saving one is better than the other. But if you rate they by the PR they got the the 4th & 56th were ythe tops. Just an opinion.

[drgondog]

Wow - tough (impossible) unless you framed it with metrics of your own choice.

On the a/c destroyed question including ground - the list goes like this
4th (1011/550), 56th (989/665.5), 355th (834.5/340), 354th (?/707), 352 (777.66/502.67), 357 (702.5/595.5) where the first number is total air and ground and the second is air only.. I don't know offhand what the 354th had in ground scores so they are very close to 355th in total destroyed.

The numbers are from USAF 85 for air and 8th AF USAAF Victory Credits Board for Ground... (hence 354 not in that summary).

The 56th had the most aces. The 4th fought the longest. The 357th had the most air scores from date of first combat mission. The 355th had no ace shot down in air to air combat and had an 8:1 air to air ratio....the 354th had the most air victories and who knows what their total would have been if they had stayed attached to 8th and 51's throughout the war.

The 355th destroyed the most on the ground and lost the second most (behind the 4th) to German flak. The 4th scores don't count the Eagle Squadron scores. The 4th had the highest number of losses (241),, the 352nd the lowest (118), the 56th the second lowest (128).

I would be hard pressed to give the 'nod' to the 56th for two primary reasons, 1) the had the shorter range 47 throughout the war and missed out in some of the huge air battles fought in April and May 44 until the late model D's gave them the range to engage, and 2) only 10 more losses behind the 352nd despite fighting 6 months longer against tougher force (before Luftwaffe gutted in March, April and May 44 of it's experienced pilots).

Just opinion... someone else throw one out.

Bill

[Jim Oxley]

Excellent post drgondog, that was exactly the sort of information I was looking for.The 354th spent it's time in the 9th AF didn't it? So one would think that it would have had ample opportunity to rack up a very large claim of ground kills. And wasn't the 354th FG the only unit to have a Medal Of Honor winner?

[drgondog]

Jim - a couple of points. First the 354FG only had 637-56-261 in USAF 85, so their WWII totals were reduced approx 70. I miscounted.

Second, Howard was the only 8th fighter pilot to get MoH (when 354FG attached to 8th) on 11 Jan 1944 when he attacked a mixed force of 110's, 109's and 190's - shooting down three, damaging three more and totally broke up the attack single handed.

This is a curious fact considering that so many DSC's awarded to 8th FC pilots probably merited MoH in other AF units.

In the 355th for example, Henry Brown attacked 6 Me 109's to save two of his squadron mates - with empty guns, chasing each one in a Lufberry and forcing them to break away one by one as he closed on their tails.

Deacon Priest rescued my father under heavy German infantry fire in another Mustang on 18 Aug 1944.

Third, I gave more thought to the 'best' and recall that you didn't limit it to WWII. The 4th in Korea did a 506-86-505 number on MiG's in the Korean War - putting another 40 pilots shooting down 5 or more.

Also - the 49th FG fought a tough war, particulary in the early days in the Pacific, and ended up with 664-56-261 plus a lot on the ground.

Opinion only as usual.