199 Squadron Stirling LJ580, damaged in night fighter attack on 10-11 or 11-12 March 1944?

[Theo Boiten]

Dear all,

Who can confirm the right date when 199 Squadron Stirling LJ580 was damaged in a night fighter attack over Southern France, was this on 10-11 or 11-12 March 1944? And is there a Combat Report available of the incident?

Cheers and thanks, Theo

[MW Giles]

The AIR 27/1172 199 Sqn ORB confirms a combat on 10/11 Mar in which an a/c was shot up by a night fighter during a Special Operation

The AIR 50 combat report in the NA is for a Stirling III EF---/X on 10/11 Mar 44
with 23:00 hrs 4600N 0550E Bf110 Probably destroyed. The three crew mentioned are Betts (Pilot) Gumbrill (MUG) and Wilkinson (RG) Sorry the watermark gets in the way of the s/n. Pay £3.50 and it will disappear

The ORB Form 541 for that crew on 10/11 March lists LJ580 as their a/c. However Form 78 of LJ580 does not show serious damage, but it does show Cat Ac damage for EF459, which took until 12th May to repair on site

The ORB shows LJ580 operating the night 15/16 Mar therefore cannot have been too badly damaged if at all. LJ480 was lost Gardening on the night of 11/12 March

Conclusion EF459 damaged by nightfighter on 10/11 March. Combat report in NA and can be viewed online

LJ580 a red herring

I have EF459 down as being X then Z. LJ580 was also X. Suggest EF459/X went off line Cat Ac and LJ580 became the new X (it only joined Sqn on 5th Mar). Then its serial no got backdated to 10/11 Mar because the compiler of the ORB thought a/c X was LJ58O on that earlier date. Sorry it my ramblings do not make sense


Martin

[Col Bruggy]

Hi Theo,

The following is from John Reid's history of No.199 Squadron:

10 March 1944.

Fourteen aircraft and crews were detailed for 'Special Operations' and, as the weather cleared, the Stirlings were individually loaded with fifteen containers and one package for the night's operations ...

F/Lt Betts, EJ459 EX-X ("Trainer 128") was shot up by a night fighter en route to the DZ and forced to jettison the entire load of fifteen containers, but the internal load of packets were brought back to base (see combat report at end of day's narrative).

The combat report submitted by F/Lt Betts LJ580 [sic], dated 13th March 1944 reads:

On the night of 10/11th March 1944, outward bound to Special Target, at position 4600N 0525E. Time 2300 hours. Height: 5,000ft. Course: 110 true. Airspeed: 165. Visibility: very Good, full moon.

No searchlights, ground activity or other unusual phenomena was noticed at time of attack. Our rear gunner first saw the enemy aircraft attacking from the starboard quarter, fire at a range of 500 yards and recognised it as a Me110. He immediately ordered the pilot to corkscrew starboard, and both our rear gunner and the enemy aircraft opened fire simultaneously as the pilot commenced to corkscrew.

The enemy aircraft crossed over to our port quarter and did a steep turn and came in for a second attack. Our rear gunner continued to fire and the mid-upper also opened fire when the enemy aircraft was on the port quarter.

Our aircraft was hit in the port inner engine, bomb bay, bomb aimer's compartment, port fuselage, port wing and port tail plane by cannon shells. Hits severed all the pipe lines to the mid-upper turret making it u/s.

Both gunners observed strikes on the enemy aircraft in the attack, The enemy aircraft broke off onto the port beam up and was not seen again. Shortly after an explosion and fire was seen on the ground in the vicinity where the enemy aircraft disappeared and was reported by three other Stirling crews who were in the area. In view of these facts we claim the enemy aircraft as a possible kill.

Our navigator, F/Sgt Berry, was injured in thirteen places by small steel fragments. The wounds were all superficial and not at all serious.

The rear gunner, (Sgt Wilkinson) fired 700 rounds. Mid Upper gunner (P/O Gumbril) fired 150 rounds before turret packed up.

Appendix 3: Record of 199 Squadron Stirling Aircraft with dates of service (pp.195-7).

EF459 - EX-X - 13/01/44-10/03/44 - Battle damage. Repaired, recoded P 12/05/44-17-07-44.
LJ580 - EX-X - 05/03/44-31-01-45 - Struck off charge at end of war.

See:
"Let Tyrants Tremble" The War Diary of 199 (Bomber Support) Squadron November 1942-July 1945
Reid,John.
N.P.:Stenlake Publishing Ltd.,2014.
pp.107-9 & 195-7 (Photograph appears on p.109 with the following caption: Debriefing after raid on 11th March 1944. F/Lt Bill Betts is talking to one of the station intelligence officers after a successful mission. It was important to get as much information on how a raid went to pin-point areas of searchlights and flak to be avoided on future missions. Standing behind F/Lt Betts is Sgt K.D.Walker,W/op and sitting nearest to the camera is P/O Berry, Nav.)

Col.

[Theo Boiten]

Thanks a lot chaps for your info. A family member of one of the crew sent me a series of photos showing extensive battle damage to the a/c as a result of the encounter, the a/c returning on two engines according to this contact, but was unable to give me precise info on the exact date and serial number, hence my asking.

Cheers, Theo