Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 4th October 2017, 11:09
Evgeny Velichko's Avatar
Evgeny Velichko Evgeny Velichko is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stalingrad
Posts: 1,289
Evgeny Velichko is on a distinguished road
Re: Soviet woman pilot rammed Me-109

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luftwaffle8 View Post
I found a Soviet document on her, but it is in handwriting which I cannot decipher. I will share it with all of you and will welcome your thoughts. Thank you very much!
I will be glad to translate it for You.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 4th October 2017, 19:10
Luftwaffle8 Luftwaffle8 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 46
Luftwaffle8 is on a distinguished road
Re: Soviet woman pilot rammed Me-109

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evgeny Velichko View Post
I will be glad to translate it for You.
Thank you, but I already had it translated! Here is what it says: "“12.9.41 Near the city of Sumy shot down by a German fighter in a fight with numerically superior enemy forces. Defense Ministry archives, Fund 135 (word unclear), Listing 518966, newspaper Soviet Aviation 28.2.1958 (issue) “

Zelenko's Award List also states that she was killed in aerial combat at Romny with Me-109s. There is absolutely no mention of a ramming attack in the documents. All list her death on 12 September 1941, BUT
NOKOSE writes: "No such person as Zelenko and Pavlyk is reported as as killed on that day. The 135 BBAP did report Lt. Nikolay Ivanovich Filinskiy (flight or section commander) and St. Lt. Ivan Pavlovich Sidorenya (AE Adj.) were both listed as KIA in an air battle at Romny."

I really do think Zelenko did not ram because there are no Me-109s lost by JG51. Luftwaffe ace Anton Hafner claimed 2 Sukhois at Romny, and according to Soviet records, two were lost there.

It's a great story though. A veterans group strongly pushed for Zelenko to get her HSU on the 45th Anniversary of Victory Day, along with Lydia Litvyak. On 5 May 1990, Russian President Mikhail Gorbachev awarded them the highest honor. But of course, he needed "documentation" and it was provided.

As researchers, can we conclude that Zelenko did not ram, and that this is just a fanciful story?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 4th October 2017, 19:27
Luftwaffle8 Luftwaffle8 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 46
Luftwaffle8 is on a distinguished road
Re: Soviet woman pilot rammed Me-109

I wish I know how to attach a photo! Anyway, I have a copy of Zelenko's official military dossier, dated 5.7.72, which states: "She was killed in aerial combat with Me-109 at Romny on 12 September 1942." (В воздушном бою под Ромно с МЕ-109 пр-ка, т. ЗЕЛЕНКО была сбита).



That's it. Short and sweet. No mention of ramming.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 5th October 2017, 05:19
Nokose's Avatar
Nokose Nokose is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida (USA)
Posts: 1,777
Nokose will become famous soon enough
Re: Soviet woman pilot rammed Me-109

In the OBD there was no one listed as killed by that name that day that I could find. But considering the conditions at that time of the war, paperwork might have been misplaced or lost.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 5th October 2017, 07:53
Evgeny Velichko's Avatar
Evgeny Velichko Evgeny Velichko is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stalingrad
Posts: 1,289
Evgeny Velichko is on a distinguished road
Re: Soviet woman pilot rammed Me-109

In the "Memory book" (Книга памяти), there is a brief information about E.Zelenko. It is aviable in OBD Memorial.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 6th October 2017, 20:30
Luftwaffle8 Luftwaffle8 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 46
Luftwaffle8 is on a distinguished road
Re: Soviet woman pilot rammed Me-109

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evgeny Velichko View Post
In the "Memory book" (Книга памяти), there is a brief information about E.Zelenko. It is aviable in OBD Memorial.
Thank you very much!!!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 8th October 2017, 04:48
Nokose's Avatar
Nokose Nokose is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida (USA)
Posts: 1,777
Nokose will become famous soon enough
Re: Soviet woman pilot rammed Me-109

Evgeny, can you give a link or give the unit it showed up under.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 9th October 2017, 10:18
kirche kirche is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Moscow region
Posts: 392
kirche is on a distinguished road
Re: Soviet woman pilot rammed Me-109

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokose View Post
No such person as Zelenko and Pavlyk is reported as as killed on that day. The 135 BBAP did report Lt. Nikolay Ivanovich Filinskiy (flight or section commander) and St. Lt. Ivan Pavlovich Sidorenya (AE Adj.) were both listed as KIA in an air battle at Romny.
Michael, hello.
St. Lt. Ivan Pavlovich Sidorenya (AE Adj.) died at Romny airfield. Not air battle.
BR,
Kirill
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 9th October 2017, 12:48
Evgeny Velichko's Avatar
Evgeny Velichko Evgeny Velichko is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stalingrad
Posts: 1,289
Evgeny Velichko is on a distinguished road
Re: Soviet woman pilot rammed Me-109

Some photos:
https://en.riavrn.ru/news/voronezh-u...erina-zelenko/

Memoral Book (Книга Памяти) with loss registry:
https://www.obd-memorial.ru/html/inf...73001&page=102
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10th October 2017, 04:24
Luftwaffle8 Luftwaffle8 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 46
Luftwaffle8 is on a distinguished road
Re: Soviet woman pilot rammed Me-109

Thank you very much for the education!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Late war Bf 109 pictures source Marc-André Haldimann Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 1105 9th April 2022 19:45
Barkhorn's 200th. For Michael (Nokose) Nick Hector Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 24th January 2017 02:00
Luftwaffe Losses 26th.July 1944 Brian Bines Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 2nd April 2011 16:19
Bf 109 photos Marc-André Haldimann Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 8 6th August 2010 08:49


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net