Grafogel Franz

[ginamod]

Who knows about Grafogel Franz? He is said to crash on 16th April 1944.
Mysterious, false or real??
Thanks for any information!
dnalor
Tirol Austria

[Matti Salonen]

Flzg.-Mech. Ogfr Franz Gravogel from 12./JG 54 was killed in the following crash as a passanger:
1944-04-16, III/TG 4, Ju 52/3m, 501325, 9 km westlich Orsowa, Absturz. Bruch 100 %.

Matti

[FrankieS]

Zum Gedenken Y2208183
Nachname: Gravogel
Vorname: Franz
Dienstgrad: Obergefreiter
Geburtsdatum: 09.06.1922
Geburtsort: St. Veit
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 16.04.1944
Todes-/Vermisstenort: 9 km westl. Orsova bei Toplitz
Franz Gravogel wurde noch nicht auf einen vom Volksbund errichteten Soldatenfriedhof überführt oder konnte im Rahmen unserer Umbettungsarbeiten nicht geborgen werden. Nach den uns vorliegenden Informationen befindet sich sein Grab derzeit noch an folgendem Ort:
Orsova - Rumänien

[ginamod]

Matti and Frankie !
These were surprisingly fast replies, many thanks for your positive answers.
There was a saying that a certain F. Grafogel would have crashed in St. Veit, Eastern Tyrol. Well, he was born there, crashed nr Orsova, I have learned now due to you. Now we have the chance and duty to remember him in his home country.
Kindest regards roland

[Laurent Rizzotti]

I'm interested in this Ju 52 loss. I have for this day that Ju 52/3m g8e W.Nr. 501325 of 9./TG 4, which was downed by Allied escort fighters at Toplet (called Toplitz by the Germans), some 9 km of Orsova in the Banat region of Romania. 16 men aboard were reportedly killed.

Aboard were according to JG 54 loss list by Gunter Rosipal three men of IV./JG 54, Uffz. Johann Elbinger of 11./JG 54, Uffz Alfred Grimm and Fw Hartmut Wilkens of 12./JG 54. Gravogel will be another that was not known of Rosipal.

At this time IV./JG 54 was in Lemberg, Poland, and probably preparing to move to Romania where it arrived some days later, so that may explain the presence of JG 54 men aboard a Ju 52 in the area.

I would like to have the full list of crew and passengers of this JU 52 if someone had it.

Thanks in advance

Laurent

PS: by the way the Toplitz in the German loss report is very probably the Romanian village of Toplet, that is north of Orsova, not west. But west of both are mountains and it is possible the crash place is there, technically in Toplet territory but west of the village itself.

[Matti Salonen]

I have only the following 15. One might be missing?:

Flugzeugführer Fw Wilkens, Hartmut
Bordfunker Uffz Kürschner, Heinz
Bordwart Uffz Scharinger, Josef
Bordschütze Uffz Kupczak, Albin
Fluggast (Flugzeugführer) Uffz Elbinger, Johannes (Von 10./JG 54.)
Fluggast (Flzg.-Mech.) Ogfr Gravogel, Franz (Von 12./JG 54)
Fluggast (Flugzeugführer) Uffz Grimm, Alfred (Von 12./JG 54)
Fluggast (Motorenschlosser) Uffz Hey, Walter (Von 12./JG 54)
Fluggast (Motorenschlosser) Uffz Marx, Fritz (Von 12./JG 54)
Fluggast (Motorenschlosser) Uffz Neger, Hubert (Von 10./JG 54)
Fluggast (Waffenwart) Gefr Nonn, Helmut (Von 12./JG 54)
Fluggast (Funkwart) Gefr Siemon, Edmund (Von 11./JG 54)
Fluggast (Flzg.-Mech.) Uffz Trafoyer, Kurt (Von 10./JG 54)
Fluggast (Flzg.-Mech.) Gefr Treutel, Robert (Von 10./JG 54)
Fluggast (Funkwart) Gefr Urban, Heinz (Von 10./JG 54)

Matti

[egbert]

Franz Grafogel und alle anderen ca 78 deutschen Toten werden wahrscheinlich 2015/16 umgebettet, da Orsova völlig verrottet und ungepflegt durch die Rumänen geführt wird. Alle Stelen sind bereits unleserlich durch Verwitterung des Betons. Antrag zur Umbettung ist bereits an die rumänischen Behörden ergangen.

[egbert]

Anybody knows whether the Ju 52/3m g8e W.Nr. 501325 of 9./TG 4, identified here in this thread was indeed a Ju52 with RED CROSS markings?

[Larry deZeng]

The 15th AAF's mission on 16 April 1944 was called the Turnu Severin - Belgrade - Nis Mission. Only 2 multi-engine aircraft were claimed that day by the escort fighters, one by the 1st Fighter Group (P-38's) and the other by the 82d Fighter Group (P-38's). Since Turnu Severin is practically next door to Orsova, then this is probably the mission. The Turnu Severin airfield was nearly obliterated by 68 B-24 Liberators and the marshalling yards there were hard hit by another formation of 151 B-24's. Could it be that the Ju 52 had just left Turnu Severin moments before the raid began? Are there more details on the two fighter group websites?

L

[egbert]

Just recently a new commemoration stone , financed by 2 locals with interest in WW2 air crashes in the region, was erected on Orsova cemetery, remembering the crash victims.