Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 1st February 2008, 16:57
Evgeny Velichko's Avatar
Evgeny Velichko Evgeny Velichko is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stalingrad
Posts: 1,240
Evgeny Velichko is on a distinguished road
Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Addition to
Quote:
1 VA raid to Sescha 20:20 - 20:25.
Some combat reports.

Main attack was leaded by 2 Officers of 198 shap: Major M.Z. Bondarenko (CO 198 shap) and Kapitan V. Malinkin (CO 2nd eskadrilya of 198 shap). Both of them were very skilled pilots. Bondarenko , one of the most scilled VVS shap pilots and CO's, gain his first combat expirience in Winter War, and to june 1943 had ~200 combat mission, HSU (6.6.42). Malinkin joined VVS in 1940, was an instuktor, participated in GPW from first day. At time of his death 13 july 1943 under guns of Hptm.Herrmann, he had 10 german fighters at his score, ~ 200 combat missions, and large ammount of ground targets destoryed.

From combat report of 198 shap:

Groups of 198 shap start theyr attack on Sescha at 20:24 - 20:25. On the ground they saw: ~20 twoengined aircrafts in NW part of airfield, ~30 two- and singeengined aircratfs in N part, ~20 singleengined (probably fighters) aircratfs in E part of airfield, and in S part - ~15 covered twoengined aircrafts.

Attack started from altitude 800-900 metres from 25-30* dive (pilots used RS-132 rokets), followed to 300metres (crews dropped theyr HE and Splitter bombs), and to low level strafing (using 23mm VYa and 7,62 ShKAS). Exit from attack was in SE direction.

Crews spotted: as result of direct hits of RS-132 3 two engined aircrafts burned in NW part of airfield, and more 3 - in the center of airfield. On the N part of airfield spotted 2 big explosions, with altitude of flame and smoke to 250-300 metres (as noted "one explosion of black color, another - orange-red") It is beleived large fuel and ammutition depots exploded. Also, in the N part of airfield large group of ground personal (or pilots), ~50 peaple, who runed from building (probably from officers dining room) were attacked by VYa and ShKAS.

Fighter escort of 309 iap noted "18 fires in the area of aircrafts, and several strong explosions".

Report of U-2 crews of nightbomber regiment, wich flew to Sescha in night 8.06 - 9.06.43, "several large fires continued untill the morning"

Airfield was covered by german fighgters. First attack was made in area Chekalina Sloboda, in 3 km from Sescha airfield. German fighter were trying to drag escort from Il-2's, and then attack leaders of Il-2 groups to split theyr formation.

Leader of 1st group, Major Bondarenko, came under attack straight over airfield, when 2 Fw190 attacked him in Head On. After attck Bondarenko turned to heading 70*, and was attacked by another 2 Fw190. Defending his life, gunner of Bondarenko crew, Kapitan Bessmertnov, was badly wounded in head and in both legs, but could shot down one Fw190 (wingman) from very close distance, as stated "enemy fighter overturned on low altitude, and burning crashed to earth in area of Zagorjye (6km E from station Rekovichi)". Fw190 (leader) stopped his attack, climbed to left and went off.

After that Il-2 of Major Bondarenko was attacked by lone Bf109, who made totally 7 attackes, chasing Il-2 to Lyudinovo area. Enemy fighter made attacks from 6 oclock below, from distanse 100-200 metres. As a result Il-2 was badly damaged engine, and tail control cables. Bondarenko himself was woinded, but could emlanded at Krasny Gai airfield.

Second group of Il-2's, leaded by Kapitan Malinkin, was intercepted 2 kms before airfield Sescha by 2 Fw190. German fighter made unsuccessful attack from alt 1000metres on the Il-2 of Malinkin with angle 3/4-4/4. After that Fw190 (leader) exited from attack in front of Il-2 group and started slight right combat turn. In that moment Malinkin turned his Il-2 a little to right and opened fire from distanse 70-100 metres from VYa. Fw190 exploded, lost parts of wings and crashed in the swamp near airfield Sescha. Victory was confirmed by Kapitan Pitzkhelauri and St.Lt. Volkov, wingmen of Malinkin.

Aircraft of Major Bondarenko:
http://pics.livejournal.com/bersrk/pic/0000geq0

I beleive that He111's, destroyed and damaged at airfield Sescha, were 198 shap crews "job".

Best wishes!

P.S. Sorry, my english is not perfect.
__________________
My articles on Warspot.ru: Otto Kittel, Erich Rudorffer, Emil Lang (work in process).
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 2nd February 2008, 16:12
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Hungary
Posts: 1,752
Dénes Bernád is on a distinguished road
Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

On May 6, 1943, there was a strong Rumanian fighter presence in the Kramatorskaya and Sslavyansk area (SE of Kharkov), with both victory claims and losses on their part. In that period, Hungarian '109s were active in the Kharkov-Byelgorod area. They should be included in the equation, too.
__________________
Dénes
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 3rd February 2008, 08:34
Evgeny Velichko's Avatar
Evgeny Velichko Evgeny Velichko is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stalingrad
Posts: 1,240
Evgeny Velichko is on a distinguished road
Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

THx Denes!

I'll post info about 6 may attack a bit later (very long lists)...

Post above, about 198 shap raid to Sescha was on 8 june 1943.

Best wishes!
__________________
My articles on Warspot.ru: Otto Kittel, Erich Rudorffer, Emil Lang (work in process).
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12th February 2008, 20:25
Nokose's Avatar
Nokose Nokose is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,526
Nokose is on a distinguished road
Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Evgeny,
Is there any listing in your source of the Luftwaffe raid on the Kursk railway junction on the 02Jun43 approx. 05:00 (Moscow)? I believe there were claims made by 30GIAP and others against the bombers also ZG1 and JG51.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 14th March 2008, 23:55
Evgeny Velichko's Avatar
Evgeny Velichko Evgeny Velichko is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stalingrad
Posts: 1,240
Evgeny Velichko is on a distinguished road
Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Continue:

6 may 1943

1 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfields Shatalovo and Borovskoye(~4:30)

To Borovskoye:

10 x Il-2 (leader Major Karyakin, 198 shap)
6 x Il-2 (leader Ml.Ltn. Egorov, 62 shap) with close escort of ?? x Yak-1 (leader St.Lt. Seroglazov, 162 iap)
4 x Il-2 (leader St.Lt. Alferov, 312 shap).

To Shatalovo:

5 x Il-2 (leader Major St.Lt.M.Stupishin, 312 shap) with close escort of 2 x La-5 (leader Kap.Chalbash, 49 iap)

--------------------------
Road to target:


Over Yelnya group of 312 shap came under attack of 6 x Fw190+Bf109's.

Losses:
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. I.Pastukhov, 312 shap) shot down by Fw190, crashed at 10km NE Yelnya;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. L.Komarovskiy, 312 shap) shot down by Fw190, crashed at area Shatalovo;

--------------------------
Over the target:

Result of attack on both airfield is not seen because of aircombat.

---------------------
Road from target to home bases:


~6:25 group of 32 shap came under attack of 1 Bf110.
~6:30 group came under attack of large group of Fw190

Losses:
Il-2 (32 shap) heavy damaged by Bf110, crashlanded at his base airfield;
Il-2 (32 shap) heavy damaged by Bf110, crashlanded at his base airfield;
Il-2 (32 shap) heavy damaged by Bf110, crashlanded at his base airfield;

Claims:

Bf110 shot down by Il-2 gunners (Ml.Serj. Zubrarev - WiA, 62 shap), crashed in area of Baltunino;
Fw190 shot down by Il-2 gunners (312 shap), crashed and burned in area of Borovskoye;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Kap.Chalbash, 49 iap), crashed in area of Zhary;
Fw190 shot down by Yak-1 (St.Lt. Seroglazov, 162 iap), crashed in area of airfield;
__________________
My articles on Warspot.ru: Otto Kittel, Erich Rudorffer, Emil Lang (work in process).
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 15th March 2008, 03:17
Nokose's Avatar
Nokose Nokose is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,526
Nokose is on a distinguished road
Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Evgeny, Tony Woods list has Uffz August Mueller 8/JG51 claiming a Il-2 at 04:25 (44733) and 04:30 (44881). Is this in the area that the 312 ShAP was targeting. The book "Broken Sky" doesn't have any maps. From what I've been able to understand so far the 49 IAP said that they missed the airfield by 1 km to the west and aborted.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 15th March 2008, 07:17
Evgeny Velichko's Avatar
Evgeny Velichko Evgeny Velichko is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stalingrad
Posts: 1,240
Evgeny Velichko is on a distinguished road
Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Yes, You are right, mission was aborted, and was remade at evening, but with strong interception and losses.

About Bf110, claimed by Il-2 gunners: I can only porpose that it was reconaissanse Bf110, because I./ZG 1 had no lost or damaged Bf110 on that day. Also, there are no claims of I./ZG 1 on that day.

About maps: unfortunatly, there are no names of bases of most of regiments particopated in raids in many times, so I cant say in what plases directly aircombats were. I know only target place , so we just can only imagine what heading had attacking groups and what rout they had.
__________________
My articles on Warspot.ru: Otto Kittel, Erich Rudorffer, Emil Lang (work in process).
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 15th March 2008, 13:01
Andy Fletcher's Avatar
Andy Fletcher Andy Fletcher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 720
Andy Fletcher
Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Thanks Evgeny for the May43 data.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher
__________________
Per Speculationem Impellor ad Intelligendum
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 15th March 2008, 16:13
Evgeny Velichko's Avatar
Evgeny Velichko Evgeny Velichko is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stalingrad
Posts: 1,240
Evgeny Velichko is on a distinguished road
Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Its only VERY short part...

I'll drink a bit coffe and... will type the continue May be some 2-3 hours and You will got all May raids here.
__________________
My articles on Warspot.ru: Otto Kittel, Erich Rudorffer, Emil Lang (work in process).
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 2nd May 2008, 19:17
Nokose's Avatar
Nokose Nokose is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,526
Nokose is on a distinguished road
Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

07 may 43 Airfield raids
Kharkov-Sokol'niki
6 Il-2 820 ShAP
8 Yak-7b 6 IAP
Kharkov-Aleshki
6 Il-2 800 ShAP
8 Yak-7b 183 IAP

Losses to 800 and 820 ShAP: None
(claim made against 820 ShAP by Lt Paul-Heinrich Daehne 2./JG52 but no kill)
Losses 6 IAP: two Yak-7b
(First was by Ofw Rudolf Trenkel (2/JG52) but unclear if Trenkel, Oblt Herbert Planer or Hptm Johannes Wiese got the second)
Losses 183 IAP: 3 Yak-7b forced landed behind Russian lines.
(Oblt Rudolf Miethig (3./JG52) claimed 2 LaGG-5 and a LaGG-3 and Lt Max Geissler (3.) claimed a LaGG-5)
VVS claims 4 Bf-109's ( I/JG52 no losses)
800 ShAP claimed 7 Bf-109 and 3 Bf-110's on the ground
820 ShAP claimed 4 aircraft on the ground
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Percentage of Verifiable Victories of Various Aces –Updates & Recommendations Rob Romero Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 25 9th March 2010 02:39
Rudolf Mueller: claims vs actual 'kills' Sanchez Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 26 21st December 2007 15:17
Percentage of Verfiable Victories of Various Aces -INSTRUCTIONS. Rob Romero Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 4 3rd October 2006 16:42
Percentage of Verifiable Victories of Various Aces –Updates & Recommendations Rob Romero Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 30th September 2006 09:05
Soviet air force losses 1941-1945 Six Nifty .50s Allied and Soviet Air Forces 12 15th May 2005 17:57


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net