Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19th October 2017, 22:33
markjsheppard markjsheppard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 651
markjsheppard is an unknown quantity at this point
Bf109G-2 W.Nr14232 listing??

Hi,

Looking into a Bf109G-2. W.Nr14232. I have it down as belonging to 8./JG54 'Grünherz' and being lost 100% on the 27th November 1942 in a mid air collision around Leningrad/Kukuschkino. The pilot was Uffz Artur Stern - injured.

Something does not add up as it seems this airframe has been located in a totally different region??

Couple of options.
The JG54 machine could have been a typo - Perhaps it was 14223, 14322 etc?
The pilot on the JG54 listing was injured. Does not say he bailed out. Airframe may have been recovered, rebuilt and flown again in 1943?

The former is more probable. So looking for the Stammkennzeichen of 14232 as a starter and if the number is list in 1943 onwards?

Please let me know.

regards,

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19th October 2017, 23:44
Evgeny Velichko's Avatar
Evgeny Velichko Evgeny Velichko is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stalingrad
Posts: 1,240
Evgeny Velichko is on a distinguished road
Re: Bf109G-2 W.Nr14232 listing??

There was a photo of that aircraft in one of LiF's...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 20th October 2017, 14:32
JoMe JoMe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Offenbach / Germany
Posts: 289
JoMe
Re: Bf109G-2 W.Nr14232 listing??

Hi Mark

WNr.14232 = CC + PC
8/JG 54, 27.11.42 (%?) b.Kukuschkino/SU (35km WSW Leningrad/SU), Koll./LK
Uffz Arthur Stern vw

WNr. 14223 = BL + IJ
2/JG 52, 27.03.43 (35%) FP Poltawa/SU?, Start-PQ 62721/35 Ost (Raum Obojan/SU, ca.70km NNW Belgorod/SU), unbek.Ursache/BL

WNr. 14332 or WNr. 14322
does't exist.

I hope, this helps.

best wishes
JoMe
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 20th October 2017, 18:49
Norbert Schuchbauer's Avatar
Norbert Schuchbauer Norbert Schuchbauer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Orangevale, California
Posts: 634
Norbert Schuchbauer
Re: Bf109G-2 W.Nr14232 listing??

According to the GQM report the damage was 10% not 100%. The WNr. listed in the GQM report is 13915. The WNr. listed in the WASt report is 14232.
WNr. 13915 was later with 5./JG 52, damaged 75% on 12-Feb-43. No additional information on 14232.

Regards,
Norbert
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 20th October 2017, 21:54
markjsheppard markjsheppard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 651
markjsheppard is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Bf109G-2 W.Nr14232 listing??

Hi JoMe and Norbert,

Very interesting and a great help.

14232 having a 10% listing after its mid air collision would be good.

JG54 aircraft have been known to be transferred to their cousins in the north.

It looks as though 14232 has been 'found' in the north. No listings for her loss.

Now to see if CC+PC was recorded going through Finland. Over to Kari.

Thanks for the info.

regards

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 21st October 2017, 10:43
Kari Lumppio Kari Lumppio is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Espoo, Finland
Posts: 455
Kari Lumppio
Re: Bf109G-2 W.Nr14232 listing??

Hallo!

The old Sota-arkisto (Finnish military archive) and their excellent service enabling quick searches in now only a golden memory.

But colleagues have collected the flight information from all the available archival etc. sources. So I asken from them.

Unofrtunately the Bf 109 CC+PC transfer flight can not be indentified in the material.


Cheers,
Kari

PS Any new about the Hurricane BH140?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 21st October 2017, 13:27
markjsheppard markjsheppard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 651
markjsheppard is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Bf109G-2 W.Nr14232 listing??

Hi Kari,

Thanks for that. If 14232 went North, it was probably recorded as Black ?.

As for Hurricane BH140. Assume it was lost behind lines. I'll see if there is a listing for B'P'140 but doubt as the pilot was no doubt captured/injured going on the photos on the lake.

Its a big lake but not sure where.

regards,

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22nd October 2017, 17:14
Rottler Rottler is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ludwigshafen, Germany
Posts: 468
Rottler is on a distinguished road
Re: Bf109G-2 W.Nr14232 listing??

The Stammkennzeichen of the Bf 109 G-2 14232 was BL+IS.
The CC-block started with CC+PG (= 14236) and ended with CC+PZ (= 14255).

Source: Peter Schmoll "Die Messerschmitt-Werke im Zweiten Weltkrieg".

Regards
Leo
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 23rd October 2017, 17:42
Norbert Schuchbauer's Avatar
Norbert Schuchbauer Norbert Schuchbauer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Orangevale, California
Posts: 634
Norbert Schuchbauer
Re: Bf109G-2 W.Nr14232 listing??

I have BL+IS as a Si 204?

Regards,
Norbert
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 23rd October 2017, 19:34
Rasmussen Rasmussen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lower Saxony, Germany
Posts: 609
Rasmussen is on a distinguished road
Re: Bf109G-2 W.Nr14232 listing??

IMHO Schmoll's book isn't reliable in some points --- I have BL+ IR as an Bü 131 (FB Opitz and Gärtner) and the signs after this as Si 204 too (documented by flight logs). I've found in the Bf 109-list some more discrepances ...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bf109G (2) Archéavion Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 1 30th December 2016 22:40
Kurierstaffel 7 loss listing Spanferkel Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 2nd July 2014 14:16
BF109G A4/45 Gotha RT Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 5 29th July 2009 16:38
Bf109G for Italy 1945 RT Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 13 29th March 2009 09:40
Bf109G cockpit cill mikeshilton Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 11th October 2008 20:09


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net