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  #1  
Old 18th May 2024, 12:22
BrianC BrianC is offline
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II./JG52 lost 3 pilots 14/8/40

Hi guys

II./JG52 suffered the loss of Obfw Ruttinger, Obfw Weiss and Obfw Potthast off the coast of Kent at about 13:00 on 14 August 1940.

Frances Mason suggests that possibly the first two fell to Hurricanes of 151 Squadron, and the other to Spitfires of 65 Squadron.

Any ideas?

Cheers
Brian
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Old 18th May 2024, 13:08
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Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
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Re: II./JG52 lost 3 pilots 14/8/40

Ah Mason............great at the time but.........German losses were around 1300hrs so 1200hrs UK. Claims at this time were 32 Sqn (1-Kemen of JG 26), 65 Sqn (2 dest one probable), 151 Sqn (2 dest one damaged, 610 Sqn (3 dest, two damaged). Good place to start is Hugh Trivett's Achtung Spitfire
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Old 18th May 2024, 18:24
BrianC BrianC is offline
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Re: II./JG52 lost 3 pilots 14/8/40

Thanks Chris

I do have a copy of Achtung Spitfire Just a bit confused by Mason's remarks.

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Brian
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Old 18th May 2024, 18:50
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Re: II./JG52 lost 3 pilots 14/8/40

Mason was very good when it first came up but there was always a degree of assumption. Don't forget that JG 3 also lost 2 and all came down in the Channel apart from Kemen of JG 26
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Old 18th May 2024, 19:55
robert robert is offline
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Re: II./JG52 lost 3 pilots 14/8/40

Hi,

II./JG52 losses were logged around 13.00 hrs, but II./JG3 and III./JG3 around 13.40-13.50 hrs (confirmed by German Navy), I./JG26 around 13.45 hrs German time.

Best regards

Robert
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Old 19th May 2024, 22:21
BrianC BrianC is offline
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Re: II./JG52 lost 3 pilots 14/8/40

Hi Robert

Thanks for that.

Cheers
Brian
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Old 20th May 2024, 20:19
Peter Cook Peter Cook is offline
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Re: II./JG52 lost 3 pilots 14/8/40

Hi Brian,

Some further thoughts on the Mason claims. Bf 109s of II and III./JG52 took part in a combat that took place over the Dover/Folkestone area between 11.40 and 13.15 on 14 August. Other participants were JG3, JG26, JG51, Erpr.Gr.210, the Stukas of IV./LG1 and II./StG1,plus Bf 110s from I./ZG26. To address the JG52 losses, Mason links the loss of Ofw Rüttinger to Gordon of 151 Squadron, but states that it was made at 16.20 – it was 12.10. He links Ofw Weiss's loss to a combat with Beggs of 151 at 16.24, again Beggs made a claim at 12.10. The third loss, Ofw Potthast is linked to a claim by 65 Squadron Spitfires. 65 and 615 Squadron did take part in this combat (along with 32, 610 and 615) but 15 RAF pilots made claims for Bf 109s during this engagement – only six were shot down – and it is very difficult in most instances to link losses to specific claims. On some occasions the links can be made, especially if a pilot witnesses his victim crashing at a specific location, or his combat report details are a close match to a specific loss. That in not the case with the pilots that Mason links to the JG52 losses.

Peter
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