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  #41  
Old 12th July 2017, 10:31
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Good morning Kirill,

thanks for your assessment.
I'm always interested in successful pilots of multiseat aircraft, also in those who were not credited with the kills of their gunners.

Hmmm...Krapiva, Kulbatskiy, Kostyushin, Kirilenko...
Were the crew members of aircraft composed alphabetically ?

;-)

Michael
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  #42  
Old 12th July 2017, 13:30
kirche kirche is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Quote:
Originally Posted by knusel View Post
Hmmm...Krapiva, Kulbatskiy, Kostyushin, Kirilenko...
Were the crew members of aircraft composed alphabetically ?
;-)

Michael
)) + Kutsai ...
But Gorbunov spoils the entire system)
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  #43  
Old 14th July 2017, 12:27
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Hello Kirill,

yeah.
To resume the original topic:
As far as I understand that website with my very limited Russian skills
http://airaces.narod.ru/all14/shamanov.htm
the connection of Ivan Shamanov to the Douglas A-20 is explained like this:
  • the Ilyushin and the Douglas were available at his unit
  • Shamanov scored 8 kills
  • it's not known if these kills were scored by him personally or by his crew
  • in the former case he might have been flying a Douglas because the Ilyushin has no guns for the pilot
Have I understood it correctly ?

Michael
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  #44  
Old 16th July 2017, 13:47
kirche kirche is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Quote:
Originally Posted by knusel View Post
Hello Kirill,

yeah.
To resume the original topic:
As far as I understand that website with my very limited Russian skills
http://airaces.narod.ru/all14/shamanov.htm
the connection of Ivan Shamanov to the Douglas A-20 is explained like this:
  • the Ilyushin and the Douglas were available at his unit
  • Shamanov scored 8 kills
  • it's not known if these kills were scored by him personally or by his crew
  • in the former case he might have been flying a Douglas because the Ilyushin has no guns for the pilot
Have I understood it correctly ?

Michael
Hi Michael,
You understood correctly. About Shamanov and A-20G on that resource is only a guess. The authors do not take into account that Shamanov commanded the third squadron until the end of 1944, and the squadron flew to Il-4t until the end of the war.
http://www.airaces.ru/stati/1-jj-gva...-mtap-kbf.html

I think that such an experienced crew as Shamanov-Lorin in the last months of the war did not retrain to the A-20G - especially the unmodified version with a nasal machine-gun installation. Making of such a navigator as Lorin an ordinary navigator for a top-mast bomber is stupid.
Kirill
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  #45  
Old 20th July 2017, 12:27
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Hello Kirill,

I have gathered some possible Il-4 aces.
However, their scores might represent the kills of the crew they were part of:
  1. Y. Kochelaevskiy (navigator), 11 kills
  2. S. Kretov, 10 kills
  3. I. Shamanov, 8 kills
  4. M. Badyuk (gunner), 7 kills
  5. I. Loktyuhin (navigator), 6 kills
  6. A. Zhestkov, 6 kills
Cheers,

Michael
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