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Old 24th September 2012, 11:55
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Breakdown losses of 8th AF fighters by type

Looking for the ratio losses/sorties (air/air and air/ground) of the main three 8th AF fighters: P-38, P-47 and P-51.
Do this statistical summary exist in a way or another?

Thanks in advance.

Chris
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Old 24th September 2012, 12:26
Szkieletor Szkieletor is online now
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Re: Breakdown losses of 8th AF fighters by type

Hi.
maybe this: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...OPERATIONS.pdf
and this: http://www.usaaf.net/digest/t118.htm

Regards

Last edited by Szkieletor; 24th September 2012 at 13:17. Reason: I forgot another link
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Old 24th September 2012, 15:53
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Re: Breakdown losses of 8th AF fighters by type

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Originally Posted by Szkieletor View Post
My 8th AF Operations tables have had a few tweaks since I published them but I believe them to be the most accurate with respect to Operational Losses by category of any published. The final version (to date) is contained in Our Might Always - Volume I History of 355th FG during WWII, with a lead in for the 355th in Vietnam TBD completely in Volume II.

Schiffer working to release in Sprin 2013 catalogue. I also have a Qtr by Qtr summary of 8th and 9th AF air Victory credits for ETO during WWII, by a/c type,

Regards,

Bill Marshall
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Old 24th September 2012, 16:11
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Re: Breakdown losses of 8th AF fighters by type

Bill,

Though my own sources slightly differ from yours regarding the number of air-to-air and air-to-ground victories (I counted them all, one by one, in Frank Olynyk's book on the ETO), I agree that your tables are most reliable (I have them).
However, AFAIK, they do not include the number of sorties flown, which is essential to compare losses.

Chris
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Old 24th September 2012, 18:54
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Re: Breakdown losses of 8th AF fighters by type

Hello CJE,
Have you Donald Caldwells books "The Luftwaffe over Germany: Defence of the Reich" and volume 2 "Day Fighters in defence of the Reich - a war diary 1942-45" ?
The second vol (I have not yet seen the first vol) has day by day details including losses by a/c type and time for both sides, Luftwaffe claims, and their losses by destruction, damage KIA, MIA & WIA.
This may hold the answers you seek.
Alex
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Old 24th September 2012, 19:29
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Re: Breakdown losses of 8th AF fighters by type

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Originally Posted by CJE View Post
Bill,

Though my own sources slightly differ from yours regarding the number of air-to-air and air-to-ground victories (I counted them all, one by one, in Frank Olynyk's book on the ETO), I agree that your tables are most reliable (I have them).
However, AFAIK, they do not include the number of sorties flown, which is essential to compare losses.

Chris
Chris - I regard Frank Olynyk as the single best source. His totals for ETO differ slightly from USAF Study 85 and subsequent update by USAFHRC.

I stand by my own totals with one very specific caveat. The 8th AF VCB missed, failed to log, however you want to describe omissions, a significant population of April, 1945 clims/awards, that Frank's research has surfaced that I don't have access to. USAF doesn't credit ground kills so there was no corresponding court of higher appeal. I also use the HRC VCB (85 plus the very few updates since the 75-78 timeframe.

The net is that I scrubbed double entries, etc and compiled the 8th VCB individual records. Interestingly (or not), Kent Miller, Frank Olynyk and I all hev very close results but there are several small differences.

If I had to bet my life on whose totals would have the most documentation for their numbers I would use Olynyk - but include his most recent updates which go beyond his ETO book.

Frank's base research for his PhD Dissertation encompassed all the available sources used by USAF plus extended to USN/USMC claims and reviews.

My own parsing of Type aircraft include 95% Encounter Report cross match with 8th VCB credits in 8th AF VCB for both air and ground, 100% USAF 85 for 9th AF air victory credits. The 'other 5%' for type when no Reference was found to the Encounter Report came from unit histories so I regard the 'type destroyed (i.e 109, 190, t/e, jet) as the most suspect by type but still in aggragate very close to Total - 'all'.

Hope that helps.

Bill
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Old 25th September 2012, 10:48
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Re: Breakdown losses of 8th AF fighters by type

Bill,

No big deal.
The discrepencies are not that important to matter.

I must say that you produced a tremendous piece of work.
I'll use, with full credit, part of your tables in my forthcoming second volume on the P-51 in the ETO.

Part one has already been published. See my signature.

Chris
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Old 25th September 2012, 13:25
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Re: Breakdown losses of 8th AF fighters by type

Chris - thank you -

would appreciate it if you plug the forthcoming "Our Might Always - Volume I History of the 355th Fighter Group" as part of the credit. I can also send the qtr by qtr breakout of 8th and 9th AF ETO fighter credits. I only wish I had the final tally for RAF Mustangs in the ETO to include.
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