Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 20th March 2024, 09:29
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 860
Karoband has a spectacular aura aboutKaroband has a spectacular aura about
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1511

39. At 08:00 hours on 5 May 1945, the German capitulation of all Wehrmacht forces in Germany and Denmark went into effect. Elements of the RAF Regiment in jeeps and light trucks raced ahead of British ground forces to secure airfields that had been identified as holding the latest German aircraft innovations. The most distant was Grove-Karup, Denmark, whose units surrendered on 7 May. This photo shows the kit bags of exhausted, but armed, British soldiers piled in front of an Arado Ar 234 B-2b in a hangar at Grove. My Google interpreter says the "No Smoking" warnings in this picture are in German and Swedish.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1517

40. In all, six Arado Ar 234 Bs were captured intact at Grove, all of them recce B-2bs, five of them from 1.(F)/33. According to the Luftwaffe Wiki website, these had been transferred from Schleswig-Land [Jagel], Germany by 5 May 1945.
In this photo, three of the Arados (W.Nr. 140466, 140467 and 140486) can be seen lined up in their original markings. Because of unauthorized flights in Germany, surrendered aircraft were to be disabled. It was relatively easy to remove propellers from piston-engined aircraft. Removing rudders from jets took longer.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 20th March 2024, 10:20
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,898
Stig Jarlevik will become famous soon enoughStig Jarlevik will become famous soon enough
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karoband View Post
[
My Google interpreter says the "No Smoking" warnings in this picture are in German and Swedish.
That is an odd sign, certainly not made by a Danish citizen, who should have written 'Rygning forbudt'
or possibly 'rögning forbudt' (the Ö is in Denmark written as an O with a slash)

The word Rökning is clearly Swedish while forbudt is in Danish.

A small fascinating detail.....thanks Jim

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 20th March 2024, 12:35
Chrisyates Chrisyates is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 33
Chrisyates is on a distinguished road
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

Hi Jim, this photo of soldiers in a hanger has previously been captioned as in Stavanger-Sola, regards, Chris
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 20th March 2024, 14:41
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 860
Karoband has a spectacular aura aboutKaroband has a spectacular aura about
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

Hi Chris,

The sign is definitely not in Norwegian and note the Jeep.

best regards,

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 21st March 2024, 09:38
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,898
Stig Jarlevik will become famous soon enoughStig Jarlevik will become famous soon enough
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karoband View Post
Hi Chris,

The sign is definitely not in Norwegian and note the Jeep.

best regards,

Jim
Jim
See my post above
Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 27th March 2024, 09:24
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 860
Karoband has a spectacular aura aboutKaroband has a spectacular aura about
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1518

41. In June 1945, the British allocated three recce Arados from Grove-Karup, Denmark, to be handed over to American forces for evaluation. They were designated "USA 5", "USA 6" and "USA 7". According to Samuel, American Raiders, (2004) pp. 291-292, Col. Hal Watson flew "USA 5" and Karl Baur flew "USA 6" out of Grove. Phil Butler, in War Prizes, (Crecy, 2022), p. 215, identifies Arado Ar 234 B-2b W.Nr. 140489 "8H+EH" as "USA 5" and the other two as W.Nr. 140486 "8H+FH" and W.Nr. 140467 "8H+BH". Photographic evidence will show that Watson, indeed, flew "EH" and Baur flew "BH". This photo shows W.Nr. 140489 in its original markings at Grove.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1519

42. On 24 June 145, Col. Harold E. Watson of Watson's Whizzers flew "USA 5" from Grove to Melun-Villaroche in France via Beauvechain-Le Culot, Belgium, accompanied by Messerschmitt test pilot, Karl Baur, in "USA 6" (leaving "USA 7" behind). At Melun, both recce Arados got a quick make-over in preparation for an inspection by General Carl "Tooey" Spaatz on 27 June 1945, including a coat of olive drab. American markings and Whizzer id's can be seen in this photo. W.Nr. 140489 "USA 5" became "Jane I"/"202" and W.Nr. 140467 "USA 6" became "Snafu I"/"303".

Last edited by Karoband; 27th March 2024 at 18:01.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 27th March 2024, 09:41
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 860
Karoband has a spectacular aura aboutKaroband has a spectacular aura about
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1520

43. In this poor photograph of "Jane I", the black "E" of 1.(F)/33 on the nose wheel bracket can just be made out. On 29 June 1945, Hal Watson flew "Jane I" from Melun to Cherboug-Querqueville where it was cocooned in Plastiphane and placed on board HMS Reaper for shipment by sea to the USA as article "11".


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1521

44. On 1 August 1945, HMS Reaper arrived at Newark, New Jersey, where "Jane I" was de-cocooned and allocated to the U.S. Navy's Flight Test Division at Naval Air Station (NAS) Patuxent River, Maryland, as BuAer.No. 121445. It was probably flown from Newark to Patuxent River by the Division's chief test pilot Lt. Najeeb Halaby. The white "FT" was added by the Americans over the olive drab, possibly "Foreign Turbo".


forum.12oclockhigh.net/album.php?albumid=73&pictureid=1522

45. According to Smith & Creek, Arado Ar 234 Blitz,, (Classic, 2022), p. 311, the U.S. Navy did not test fly their Arados due to a lack of spare parts, especially tyres, missing in this photograph. Both of the Arados given to the U.S. Navy were "struck off charge on Jan. 31, 1946 and scrapped", according to Joe Baugher.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 27th March 2024, 10:33
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,898
Stig Jarlevik will become famous soon enoughStig Jarlevik will become famous soon enough
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karoband View Post
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1518

41. In June 1945, the British allocated three recce Arados from Grove-Karup, Denmark, to be handed over to American forces for evaluation. They were designated "USA 5", "USA 6" and "USA 7". According to Samuel, American Raiders, (2004) pp. 241-242, Col. Hal Watson flew "USA 5" and Karl Baur flew "USA 7" out of Grove. Phil Butler, in War Prizes, (Crecy, 2022), p. 215, identifies Arado Ar 234 B-2b W.Nr. 140489 "8H+EH" as "USA 5" and the other two as W.Nr. 140486 "8H+FH" and W.Nr. 140467 "8H+BH". Photographic evidence will show that Watson, indeed, flew "EH" and Baur flew "BH". This photo shows W.Nr. 140489 in its original markings at Grove.
Jim
Looking at what you say here and below Karl Baur must have flown USA 6 out of Grove and not USA 7
Otherwise things just don't fit
Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 27th March 2024, 10:57
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 860
Karoband has a spectacular aura aboutKaroband has a spectacular aura about
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

Stig,

You are absolutely right. Somehow in transcribing the information I got it wrong. First, the proper reference in American Raiders is pp. 291-292, and indeed it says Baur flew "USA 6"!

Thank you for the catch, Stig!

All the best,

Jim

p.s. I have corrected my blurb in #41.

Last edited by Karoband; 27th March 2024 at 18:15.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 30th March 2024, 14:25
sveahk sveahk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 188
sveahk
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

Hi Jim,

Regarding your post #41:
This photo is actually taken in Sola-Stavanger.
https://digitaltmuseum.no/0210188672...-inne-i-hangar

And "Rökning forbudt" is Norwegian. I asked around, and got an answer from a language expert (thanks Ephraim). He says it is Norwegian, in their most common written language, "bokmål". And he gives two other examples of "Rökning forbudt":
https://skanfil.no/auksjon/reklame-og-l
https://www.europeana.eu/en/item/441/_021017517684

Cheers Hans
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net