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  #1  
Old 22nd May 2024, 00:01
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Me 109 WNr 461961

Gents
Anyone has any onformation about Me 109 WNr 461961?
TIA
Franek
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  #2  
Old 30th May 2024, 16:58
Charles Bavarois Charles Bavarois is offline
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Re: Me 109 WNr 461961

Bf 109 G-14 built at Erla-Leipzig. On 03. Sept. 1944 Einflieger Nicolaus Mörtl made a "Werkflug" a Delitsch and final BAL-Abnahme followed on 30. September 1944. The long period of time until acceptance seems rather unusual. No infos on future fate. Do you know more?
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Old 1st June 2024, 01:19
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: Me 109 WNr 461961

Hi
Thanks! Do you know if it was G-14 or G-14AS? It looks it was a total loss in Dec 1944. I cannot find your email in my mailbox, I shall send you a pm, when I clear the PM box, perhaps during the weekend.
Franek
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Old 1st June 2024, 10:08
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Nick Beale Nick Beale is offline
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Re: Me 109 WNr 461961

Fow what it's worth, on 23 November 1944 I./EJG 1 was told it could fetch five Bf 109 G-14s from III./JG 6 at Schwerin: W.Nr. 460620, 462873, 462972, 461993 and 461964.

No mention of any of them being an /AS model.

(Source: ULTRA CX/MSS/T378/84)

On the other hand, a possible /AS:
From (Roman) II./53, dated 25/10:
Personnel and QM report.
Serial No. 136
18/10
5. Staffel, Field Airfield Malmsheim. Ferry flight, turned over in landing. Not observed by enemy.
Bf 109 G-14 A [sic], Black 12, W.Nr. 461948, 6(D%0)%. Replacement required.
(Source: CX/MSS/R328(C),19)
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Old 1st June 2024, 22:03
Charles Bavarois Charles Bavarois is offline
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Re: Me 109 WNr 461961

Franek and Nick: According to company documents, serial numbers 461961 and 461948 were built as regular Bf 109 G-14s at Erla-Leipzig in September 1944. A later conversion to AS engines is conceivable but IMHO rather unlikely
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Old 2nd June 2024, 21:46
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: Me 109 WNr 461961

Thanks!
Since the aircraft was seemingly assigned to RVT and flown aside of G-10s and K-4s, I have wondered if it was converted to AS and this caused a delay in acceptance.
Franek
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Old 2nd June 2024, 22:45
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Nick Beale Nick Beale is offline
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Re: Me 109 WNr 461961

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski View Post
Thanks!
Since the aircraft was seemingly assigned to RVT and flown aside of G-10s and K-4s, I have wondered if it was converted to AS and this caused a delay in acceptance.
Franek
Not necessarily. In November 1944 the G-14/AS was assigned to designated Höhengruppen (see here) while other Gruppen flew the G-14.

Pedantic note: if what they told me at school was true, in German ver- is an inseparable prefix, meaning that Verteidigung can’t be split up and Reichsverteidigung ought be abbreviated as RV, not RVT.
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Old 6th June 2024, 22:37
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
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Re: Me 109 WNr 461961

I caused Franek question. We discussed LW losses on 12.12.44 and we discussed the loss of Fw. Winand Ubber of 16./JG 27 who according to his Flugbuch bailed out from his Bf 109G-10, Blaue 10 on that day.

The problem is that in the FB under location (Start) no airfield name is mentioned but the number 461961. This is also done for his flight on 5.12.44 but than both for start and landing location.

In Prien's series this is somehow listed as Pl.Q. 61961 as crash location for 12.12.44. This cannot be true. I believe this is actually the WNr. for blaue 10. However, one problem. The FB lists his a/c as a G-10 and I believe 461961 is a G-14.

Cheers,
John

Last edited by John Manrho; 6th June 2024 at 22:37. Reason: Typo
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Old 7th June 2024, 02:46
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: Me 109 WNr 461961

Thanks John for joining the thread.
Just as John says there is no way it could have been Pl.Q. 61961. Completely wrong area.
As noted 461961 is G-14 and not G-10 listed, but IV/JG27 had both G-10 and G-14, so I can imagine it is an error.
The problem is that 461961 is entered like a location indeed. I have wondered, Feldpost or phone number, as in one entry it looks 4 61961.
Sequence of flights is Grossenhain(?) to Achmer - delivery flight, then combat sorties 461961 to 461961, Wunsdorf to 461961 (25 min), 461961 FSA, 461961 FSA.
Not much sense, in it.
Franek
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