He 219 claim on 17th.Dec.1944

[Brian Bines]

F/L Ross and P/O Shaw of 56 sqd. claimed a He219 which crashed while attempting to land following an engine being set on fire in the Tempest attack. Could anyone supply details of the identity and crew of the Heinkel please,

Thanks

Brian Bines

[Stig Jarlevik]

Brian

None is obvious since nothing is listed in Balss books. There is ONE single loss listed for the 17th (which I take indicates a daytime loss) and that is a Bf 110G lost 4 km south of Kitzingen. If THAT place has anything to do with the claimed area of Münster and Handorf airfield in Fighter Command war diaries, I don't know.

Cheers
Stig

[robert_schulte]

Brian,
are you sure about the date?
I have a loss that would fit to your description on 28th November 1944 at 8:35 local time from the book "Nachtjäger Heinkel He 219" by Roland Remp. There is even a painted picture from this incident with the text:
"He 219 A-2 of 1.NJG 1 on 28th November 1944 after being hit by British Hawker Tempests, shortly before crash in Reckenfeld".
Reckenfeld is in the vicinity of Münster-Handorf
Crew of this loss are given as Lt. Kurt-Heinz Fischer and Uffz. Hermann Bauer. Werk-Nr. 290010, G9+MK
The only given losses in the book on 17th December would be a night loss.
Does this help?
Best wishes
Robert

[Stig Jarlevik]

Robert

The Münster area was 56 Sq standard patrol area (or one of them). On the 28th of November they DID claim a He 219 as well, but that time by F/Lt Moore

Since I don't have the book you refer to, I would be very interested to find out the night losses listed for either 16/17 November or 17/18 November.

However checking Balss book a bit more careful he DOES list a loss on Dec 18th! In fact he also lists the time as 06.50H. Foreman gives no time for the mission of 56 Sq but Shores does and to my disappointment it says 14.15H, which of course makes it unlikely that it "only" could be a discrepancy of a single day.

I am also a bit puzzled by the fact that Foreman in HIS book indicate that the sweep made by 56Sq this day and with their claim of the He 219 was their FIRST one of the day, while Shores in his 2nd Tactial Air Force clearly indicates that this was their SECOND sweep....

Cheers
Stig

[robert_schulte]

Stig,
sorry, Mr. Remp gives no losses in his book for your requested November dates, which does not mean that there were none.
And for the 18th Dec: If Balss is right, that would be no time for a Tempest in the Münster area, 6:50 is dark night in December in the Münster area (with or without summer time). So, should we concentrate on Shores?
Best wishes
Robert

[Brian Bines]

Stig and Robert thanks for your info. The source for this is ' The Typhoon and Tempest Storey ' which in both the text and the claims lists gives the date as 17th. Dec. The book says the Heinkel attempted to land on an airfield but hit a building , F/L Moore's victim on 28th.Nov went into a wood. I have been trying to compile a list of He 219 losses but have had no luck with this one on the 17th?

cheers

Brian Bines

[robert_schulte]

Brian,
there is an unspecified loss of a He 219 in Remps's book on 17th Dec at 18:00 local time, which is said to have hit a building, however at that time I guess it would have been rather dark for a Typhoon.

[Michal]

By the way, as I see you are experts on He 219. Does somebody know why He 219s were often stationed in Eger (Cheb) A/F in Western Bohemia from approximately December 1944 until War´s End? Did take there place any production? There was for sure production of Me 262s and other types but nothing known to me about He 219s. Several wrecks were found there after WW2. And for example during Air Raid against Eger A/F on March 25 1945 one He 219 was destroyed and one He 219 was damaged.

Michal

[Brian Bines]

Robert,
The book says this was an afternoon patrol by 56 Sqd. and gives the Heinkel unit as 1/NJGI. I do not know if local time of 1800 hrs could have been 1600hrs GMT which may have been within the Tempest operating times. Does Rempes' book give anymore info. As the Deutsche Nachtjagd Personalverluste book gives no mention I assume the crew were safe. Thanks for your help,

Regards

Brian Bines

[Brian]

Hi Brian/Robert

I can't help with your specific query, but Typhoons did regularly fly nocturnal sorties although not necessarily those of 56 Squadron.

Cheers
Brian