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Old 21st March 2012, 20:09
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Help with artwork profile colors and history of Stab I./KG27 He111P 1G+BB of Obstlt Fritz Graumnitz, Gr Kdr during 9.39 & PC

Hello,

We're planning color profile artwork of the above a/c for the the PC volume of the EoD project. This arguably carried the most extraordinary personal artwork of any Luft a/c that participated in the PC. We're also trying to document the history of the a/c and its crews.

I've attached two images below which were taken from the book: "Boelcke Archive," Vol III by Walter Waiss. According the the caption, the Gr. Kdr, Obstlt Fritz Graumnitz, who apparently flew aboard this a/c as the Observer, had this artwork, called "Der alte Fritz" ("Old Fritz) applied to the a/c while he was the Gr.Kdr. The artwork,shows an older man in elaborate 18th or 19th Century costume (military uniform?), painted on the port side of the a/c. The face on the image may have been a portrait of Graumnitz himself. Since Graumnitz was transferred out of the unit on 01.10.39, at the end of the Polish Campaign, this would have had to have been painted on the a/c sometime previously, during or before the PCd. Graumnitz later turns up on 15.11.39 as the Gr.Kdr. of a bomber training school. The available photos all show the aircraft later, after mid-October and into the winter of 1939-40, with the coding 1G+BB. The captions say that the plane was taken over by Oblt. (FNU) Hollinde after the departure of Graumnitz.

My questions are:

1) Did this a/c, as the Gr. Kdr's a/c originally carry the code 1G+AB, as would have been the usual practice, only to be re-coded as 1G+BB after Graumnitz departed and Oblt. Hollinde took over as BO on the plane, which was obviously still assigned to the Gruppenstab.

2) What were the full names of Oblt. Hollinde (the BO), Fw Libuda, the FF, Fw Emigk (BM) and Uffz Rech (BF)? Were these the same aircrew, other than Oblt. Hollinde, that flew with Obstlt Graumnitz? These names might be able to be found somewhere in the Waiss books on KG27. If these men weren't on Graumnitz's crew during the Polish Campaign, who was? RESOLVED except for Fw Libuda. THANKS!

3) What eventually happened to this a/c, presumably still carrying the code 1G+BB?

4) There had to be some kind of guide, probably in color, for the original artist to work from in creating the "Der alte Fritz", that, if locatable, would help us re-create this complex artwork accurately, especially the colors. This is a hell of a long shot, but does anyone know of any imagery from 18th or 19th century German history, literature or culture that might show a painting or illustration of someone in this costume? If the clothing is a German or Prussian military uniform, that may help us with a color guide. Does anyone recognize this as a military uniform from some period? THIS ONE HAS BEEN RESOLVED SPECTACULARLY! THANKS!!

5) Does anyone have any background bio on Obstlt. Graumnitz? I strongly suspect that he was a WW I veteran that re-joined the new Luftwaffe sometime in the 1930s.

6) And finally, can anyone provide high-res scans from original prints of these, or any other photos of this a/c, from which our artist can work?

I know that some of these are very tough questions, and there may well be no answers, but I've been repeatedly surprised at the responses to difficult questions that have surfaced on this board.

Thanx for anything that you can contribute.
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Last edited by Larry Hickey; 30th March 2012 at 03:31.
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Old 21st March 2012, 21:38
ChrisS ChrisS is offline
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Re: Help with artwork profile colors and history of Stab I./KG27 He111P 1G+BB of Obstlt Fritz Graumnitz, Gr Kdr during 9.39 & PC

Only this one, ex eBay and not hi-res. 'Der Alte Fritz' is Frederich the Great here is a google search on his image: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fre...w=1358&bih=628 or in German Frederick der Grosse http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fre...w=1358&bih=628

Last edited by ChrisS; 10th October 2013 at 15:02.
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Old 21st March 2012, 22:07
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Clint Mitchell Clint Mitchell is offline
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Re: Help with artwork profile colors and history of Stab I./KG27 He111P 1G+BB of Obstlt Fritz Graumnitz, Gr Kdr during 9.39 & PC

This painting shows the original colour artwork: http://www.toffi.net/kartoffel_friedrich.htm After a quick scan through Chris's google results above.
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Old 21st March 2012, 22:11
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Re: Help with artwork profile colors and history of Stab I./KG27 He111P 1G+BB of Obstlt Fritz Graumnitz, Gr Kdr during 9.39 & PC

Or here: http://www.preussen-chronik.de/bild_...=bild_215.html

Called: Der König überall (The king everywhere)

Paintings by Robert Warthmüller - 1886

In the painting, the legend of the "ubiquitous King" follows King Frederick II examines the potatoes . His attempt in 1750 to introduce the potato as an alternative to food crops failed, initially at the lack of knowledge of farmers about the cultivation and their distrust. A year later, the state-controlled trial was already successful. 1785, shortly before the death of the king, there were already many potato fields with good yields.

Much larger version of painting here.
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Old 21st March 2012, 22:19
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
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Re: Help with artwork profile colors and history of Stab I./KG27 He111P 1G+BB of Obstlt Fritz Graumnitz, Gr Kdr during 9.39 & PC

Bo Oblt. Paul Hollinde, Bf Uffz. Ernst Rech & Bm Fw. Willi Enigk.

30-Mar-42, , He 111H-6, 4603, Hollinde, Oblt. Paul (Bo)/Hildebrand, Ltn. Erich (F), I., 1., KG 27, weiße B, 1G+BH, , Stkp. KIA due to Luftkampf with enemy fighters during raid on Kamysch-Burun harbor. Bf & Bs also KIA. F and Bm MIA., Bf Uffz. Hermann Wilbers, Bm Uffz. Herbert Thelen & Bs Ofw. Fritz Romeis, Coded '1G+BF' per loss. Bs from 1./LnKp 27., Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #5)-Vol.8; Waiss, Boelcke-Archiv, IV, p.44, Raum Kertsch, 100%, F
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Old 21st March 2012, 23:19
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: Help with artwork profile colors and history of Stab I./KG27 He111P 1G+BB of Obstlt Fritz Graumnitz, Gr Kdr during 9.39 & PC

Chris S., Clint & Jim P.

Thanks to all of you for your quick results!!!

Chris S and Clint: The hardest one (I thought) about the source for the artwork was apparently one of the easiest. It looks like from the photos of FtG that the artist on 1G+A?B may have done his tunic in a little lighter blue than the painting, but consistent with other images of FtG. This ensures that our artist will be able to do a stunningly accurate portrayal of this a/c.

Chris S.--thanks for the photo; that was one we already had.

Jim P. -- I know that Graumnitz was BO on a He111P that suffered 40% damage during a mission during the PC on 15.09.39. If we have the crew of that a/c (besides Graumnitz), that probably would give us his regular crew. That leaves only Fw Libuda, and Graumnitz's regular crew to be identified. I think from a study of the existing photos it's probably a safe bet to assume that the "B" in 1G+BB was repainted from an "A," and that for the PC, this a/c should be illustrated as 1G+AB.

Much important progress here. THANKS AGAIN to you all.

Regards,
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Old 21st March 2012, 23:29
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Clint Mitchell Clint Mitchell is offline
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Re: Help with artwork profile colors and history of Stab I./KG27 He111P 1G+BB of Obstlt Fritz Graumnitz, Gr Kdr during 9.39 & PC

Your welcome Larry, the coat (collars) looks to be of a different style but this painting was clearly the inspiration for fuselage artwork. Can't wait to see the profile now.
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Old 21st March 2012, 23:37
ChrisS ChrisS is offline
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Re: Help with artwork profile colors and history of Stab I./KG27 He111P 1G+BB of Obstlt Fritz Graumnitz, Gr Kdr during 9.39 & PC

You're welcome Larry. I have 1G+CB with a 'red indian' drawing if you would like an alternative?
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Old 21st March 2012, 23:42
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Re: Help with artwork profile colors and history of Stab I./KG27 He111P 1G+BB of Obstlt Fritz Graumnitz, Gr Kdr during 9.39 & PC

Large image:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...g_überall2.JPG

Best luck with color art
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Old 22nd March 2012, 04:08
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: Help with artwork profile colors and history of Stab I./KG27 He111P 1G+BB of Obstlt Fritz Graumnitz, Gr Kdr during 9.39 & PC

Pilot and Chris,

Thanks for your inputs and suggestions. Chris, we have 7 distinct profiles to do for Stab I./KG27: PC, Phoney War, WC (May), WC (June); BoB-Blitz (july-Aug), Sept, Oct-Dec, 1940, so we'll be able to do several from that unit, and every other Staffel and HQ unit from KG27, for the EoE Project --91 color Profiles alone for just KG27 if we're able to locate sufficient reference material for all of them. Fortunately Walter Waiss has published wonderful reference material on KG27 and that, plus all our other sources such as eBay and many other private collections, will go a long way towards helping us achieve our goal. I'm in the process of mapping out all the Do17, Ju88 and He111 units for that period at I write this.

Regards,
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