losses & claims of ZG1 for 14th july 1943

[Many Souffan]

Hello.

For confirmation, I would like to know the losses & claims of ZG 1 during the 14th july 1943.

By advance thank you.

[thenelm]

Bf 110G-2, 6289, n.n., , , Pz.Jg.St., ZG 1, , , , , 14-Jul-43, Bauchlandung due to Flak. Bf WIA., , Lfl.6/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Vasco, The Sting of the LW, p.144, , westlich Kosjulcina, 70%, F, Bf Uffz. Kurt Dames, ,
Bf 110G-2, 6285, n.n., , , Pz.Jg.St., ZG 1, , , , , 14-Jul-43, Technical failure., WNr. 6295 per Vasco, a dup with BLECHSCHMIDT loss., Lfl.6/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Vasco, The Sting of the LW, p.144, , Fl.Pl. Ledna-Ost, 15%, H, , ,
Bf 110F-2, 5202, Stengel, Uffz. Herbert, , , Pz.Jg.St., ZG 1, , , , , 14-Jul-43, WIA due to enemy fighters. Burned on the ground. Bf KIA., Flak per Vasco., Lfl.6/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Vasco, The Sting of the LW, p.144, , westlich Kosjulcina, 100%, F, Bf Uffz. Adolf Heusinger, ,
Bf 110G-2, 6297, n.n., , , Pz.Jg.St., ZG 1, , , , , 14-Jul-43, Bauchlandung due to enemy fighters., 2.Staffel per Vasco., Lfl.6/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Vasco, The Sting of the LW, p.143, , Lumwko, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 110G-2, 6327, Herrmann, Hptm. Wilfried, , I., Stab I., ZG 1, , S9+FB, , , 14-Jul-43, Gr.Kdr. Crew KIA due to Flak., , Lfl.6/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Vasco, The Sting of the LW, p.143, , südostwärts Krapiwna, 100%, F, Bf Ofw. Albert Weinhold, ,
Bf 110F-2, 5107, Matschiowalli, Uffz. Willi, , , 3., ZG 1, , S9+TH, , , 14-Jul-43, Crew KIA due to Flak., Staritza per loss., Lfl.6/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Vasco, The Sting of the LW, p.143, , 3km südwestlich Krapiwna, 100%, F, Bf Uffz. Hans Westermann, ,

[Laurent Rizzotti]

I have two claims by ZG 1 this day (source Tony Wood):

14/07/1943Oblt.HeinzHogeweg3.ZG 1Il-454 483: 700m11.50--yesC. 2032/IIAnerk: Nr. 27

14/07/1943Uffz.
Jung2.ZG 1LaGG-354 493: 500m13.15--yesC. 2032/IIAnerk: Nr. 28



Still on your Normandie-Niemen project ?

[Evgeny Velichko]

Many - pls keep in mind claims of VVS pilots, who operated in same area and time with NN.

[Many Souffan]

Hello Laurent

Thank you.

And yes for my bio about Marcel Albert and my project Normandie-Niemen.

Hello Evgeny

It's a long time that I look for the diaries with losses and victories of Sister russian units of 303 IAD.

Sometimes the diary of N-N said it was a French/Russian patrol, but not often.

Thank you.

[Ota Jirovec]

Hello Many,

I understand that your praiseworthy aim is to match the claims of Marcel Albert/Normandie-Niemen with Luftwaffe losses to find his/their potential victims. What Evgeny probably meant to say is that without taking into consideration the (possibly numerous) claims of not only 303 IAD, but of many other IADs of Soviet VVS operating in the same area(s) as Normandie-Niemen, you will get only premature results and that conclusions "who shot down whom" may be in some cases even misleading.

Ota

[Many Souffan]

Hello Ota.

Thank you very much.

Of course I agree with you.

But with Interviews, diaries, log book, combat reports with drawings, official documents y ou can minimize some mistakes.

Thank you

[Nikita Egorov]

The majority of claims against Bf-110s on this date goes not to sister-regiments of 303 IAD, but to pilots of 322 IAD.

[Many Souffan]

Hello Nikita

Thank you for this info;

It is possible that the claims go to 322 IAD. I don't know.

I am not a specialist of VVS, even I am curious and very interested.

The difficulty is the langage and more difficult because in cyrillic.

I think the first thing is to know what is the order of battle for this date and this part of Russia, for Germans, Russians with the French.

After what are the claims and Losses, to sudy all infos

I am very interested as I said to Evgeny to know the infos from the russian parts. It will be very nice, if these infos can be tranlated in minimum in English?

Thank you Nikita.

[Nikita Egorov]

Here they are:

Four pilots of 322 IAD:
Mladshiy Leitenant Majorov, Lt. Kosolapov both from 2 GIAP, personal victories against Me-110 area south of Khutor Jelowskiy and Berestna/Jagodnaja.

Starhiy Leitenant Isokh of 482 IAD claimed three Me-110 in the area of Jagodnaja and Leitenant Arojan 1 Me-110 in the same area.

14.07.194313.27-14.25м/лМайоров А.И.лично1Ме-110юж. хут. Еловский2 гиапЛа-5
14.07.194319.30л-тКосолапов Ф.М.лично1Ме-110Берестна/Ягодная2 гиапЛа-514.07.1943с/лИзох И.Н.лично3Ме-110Ягодная482 иапЛа-514.07.1943л-тАроянлично1Ме-110Ягодная482 иапЛа-5
No officially confirmed Bf-110 for other pilots of 303 IAD (18 GIAP and 20 IAP).

BTW, do you know were there any losses fow Normandie-Nemen for this date except De Tedesco's Jak-9?