UK Luftwaffe Ju 88 loss on 10.04.1941

[Melvin Brownless]

Hi Guys,

I have a query which I hope sone of the members of the forum may have the answer too?

I am researching a loss that occurred at Preston Hill Farm on the 10th April 1941. The A.I.(k) Report No. 139/1941 states the aircraft belonging to 6./KG76 with Uffz. Kircher as pilot. After checking the After the Battle publication "Blitz" 2 they have the machine crashing at Preston Hill Farm being a II./KG1 Ju 88 with Wnr.0157 and crew being that of Ofw. Ruedig.

Can anyone put me right with the correct loss details and does anyone hold the WASt NVM for KG76 for this period?

Kind regards and thanks,

Melvin

www.aircrewremembrancesociety.co.uk

[edNorth]

4199 Ju 88 A-5 F1+CC II/KG 76 (Luftflotte 3)
OPS (F) missing (100%) unk location 10.04.1941 (F Uffz. Heinz Kircher, BF Uffz. Hans Kellner, BS Fw. Fritz Stahn and BM Gefr. Willibald Vogt missing)

BA-MA RL 2 / III 1176, Page 145 (Entry No. 12, 12.4.1941)

[Stig Jarlevik]

Very interesting topic

As far as I can see the loss is not listed in Blitz Vol 2 at all. Most probable reason is that the authors did not believe it ended up in Britain or on British soil.

Looking in Foreman's 1941 part 2, he lists this loss as occuring on the night 10-11 April and not 9-10 April.

Being a total novice on AI documents, I however note that it is dated April 10th and stamped by the Air Ministry on the 11th, so whatever prompted the written report it could not have been written if the aircraft crashed during the night of 10-11 April (unless the individual who wrote the report signed off with the wrong date!).

I note the report state no WNr but only the code as FI+CP, which differs slightly from F1+CC as given by Ed and Foreman.

Is the report possibly a combination of ULTRA and real facts? The report mentions too much facts to be guesswork, but the possibilly could exist that some ULTRA facts got attached to the real crash of WNr 0157. But then again F1+CC is listed one day too late by Foreman, and since the Germans could hardly send signals on the 10th about a crew which went missing one night later, it simply must have gone missing on the night of 9-10 April.

Also if the crew was unwounded, as stated in the AI report, why are they not listed as POW by the Germans? Foreman states they went missing and so does Ed.

Anyone who wants to take a crack on this mystery?

Cheers
Stig

[Brian Bines]

The Rudig crew is shown in GQM report dated 11-4-41 as missing on the 9-4-41 during raid on Coventry (8/9th) in V4+JV 0157, the Kircher crew is all as Ed's post lost on the 10th (9/10th Birmingham ). There was a dig done on Kirchers aircraft reported in an Aviation Dig magazine giving crash location as Kings Walden near Hitchin and saying many manufacturers labels recovered . GQM show aircraft code as F1+CC while crew on "K" are shown as 6/76 with code F1+CP, possible a crew of 6/76 flying a Stab aircraft and the the "P" was assumed for the report. As the Kircher crew are shown as unwounded with their ages it seems they must have been Pows, with a dig licence being granted there would not have been any human remains seen as a possiblity at the site,

Regards

Brian Bines

[edNorth]

One has “Preston Hill Farm, Nr. Whitwell, Herts, MAP L.6343, 02:30hrs, Ju 88 F1+CP 6./KG 76 (Staffel colour Yellow) and same crew names exactly.

Other has detail: Ju 88 crashed 10.04.41 at 02:00 hrs at Kings Walden near Hitchin, MAP L.6243, two NDD plates (made July 1940) and rear canopy with two guns (i.e was A-5 version). Four crew rep prisoners.

This agrees with expected details on Ju 88 A-5 (088)4199.

Seems MAP references here are closely suspect. Is dig report referring to WW2 report on plates recovered, or where are the plates now - Any photo or written details of them? Anyone know where info on 0157 crash come from? I do not have any such reference.

Ed

[Melvin Brownless]

Thanks guys, much appreciated!

Melvin

www.aircrewremembrancesociety.co.uk

[Stig Jarlevik]

OK and thanks Brian (for further complications.... )

To recaptitulate

Ju 88A WNr 0157 V4+JV Ofw Rudig lost 8/9.4.1941 (not 9/10 as listed before)

Ju 88A WNr 4199 F1+CC Uffz Kirscher POW 9/10.41 (not 10/11 as listed before)
Crew listed as POW and not as stated by Foreman, lost

What does the NVM state for these two crews?

Cheers
Stig

[Matti Salonen]

Both crews POW.

Matti

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Matti

Does the NVM also confirm our new dates?

Cheers
Stig