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  #1  
Old 24th June 2019, 18:53
steve sheridan steve sheridan is offline
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Oblt.Klaus Lohe 9/KG4 LOST 7.10.43

Hi could anybody be kind enough to help with the loss details for Oblt.Klaus Lohe 9/KG4 and crew who failed to return from ops 7.10.43.

Best regs,
Steve.
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Old 24th June 2019, 19:17
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
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Re: Oblt.Klaus Lohe 9/KG4 LOST 7.10.43

1943-10-07, 9./KG 4, He 111 H-16, 161292, 5J+RT, Jeserischtschi
Flugzeugführer Olt Lohe, Klaus, verletzt
Beobachter Ogfr Boddenberg, Horst, +
Bordfunker Uffz Feucht, Karl, vermißt
Bordschütze Ogfr Matzko, Emil, vermißt
Bordschütze Uffz Ritter, Kurt, verletzt
Absturz nach Luftkampf und Aufschlagbrand. Bruch 100 %.

Matti
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Old 25th June 2019, 00:38
steve sheridan steve sheridan is offline
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Re: Oblt.Klaus Lohe 9/KG4 LOST 7.10.43

Hi Matti, thanks ever so much for this information.
Had drawn a blank looking at other sources, so much appreciated.
Kindest regs,
Steve.
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Old 25th June 2019, 12:00
Dan History Dan History is offline
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Re: Oblt.Klaus Lohe 9/KG4 LOST 7.10.43

Steve, thank you for asking the question, and Matti, thank you as always for being willing to share your excellent information. I can add that this aircraft was probably involved in the fighting around Nevel, Pskov Oblast, Russia. This town was recaptured by the Red Army the day before, 6 October 1943.
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Old 25th June 2019, 16:08
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Oblt.Klaus Lohe 9/KG4 LOST 7.10.43

All efforts to locate "Jeserischtschi" came up empty. The English translation of the transliteration from Russian to German would be "Yeserishchi", Google and Google Earth failed to come up with anything, at least that I could find in a brief search.

Dan H. could well be right regarding Nevel. According to Karl Gundelach's unit history of KG 4 and other sources, III./KG 4 during this period:

Quote:
9.8.43: aircraft and crews moved to Mirgorod/C Ukraine for 3 weeks to help counter Soviet armored spearheads driving forward in the Poltava-Kharkov-Izyum area, flying 1,411 combat sorties in around-the-clock operations during Aug, then returned to Shatalovka-West on 31 Aug before moving to Orsha-South on 8 Sep.
9/43: supported heavy defensive fighting in the Smolensk area and attacked trains and railway stations along the front from Vyazma south to Kursk.
26.9.43: transferred to Ulla/59 km W of Vitebsk.
1.10.43: together with other units, credited with the destruction of two Soviet tank brigades and several rifle divisions that had been concentrated near Rudnya to the southeast of Vitebsk for an impending attack.
29.10.43: ordered to Puchovichi/62 km SE of Minsk where it joined the Geschw.Stab and II.Gruppe.
Gundelach, Karl. Kampfgeschwader “General Wever” 4: Eine Geschichte aus Kriegstagebüchern, Dokumenten und Berichten 1939-1945. Stuttgart: Motorbuch Verlag, 1978. ISBN: 3-87943-572-3. Hb. Dj. 398p. Illus. Maps. Numerous appendices. Bibliography.

Ulla would be a perfect airfield for aircraft flying missions in the Nevel area.
Some Flugbücher from 9. Staffel aircrew could certainly help clear this up.

L.
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Old 25th June 2019, 17:28
Dan History Dan History is offline
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Re: Oblt.Klaus Lohe 9/KG4 LOST 7.10.43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry deZeng View Post
All efforts to locate "Jeserischtschi" came up empty. The English translation of the transliteration from Russian to German would be "Yeserishchi", Google and Google Earth failed to come up with anything, at least that I could find in a brief search.

Dan H. could well be right regarding Nevel...

Ulla would be a perfect airfield for aircraft flying missions in the Nevel area.
Some Flugbücher from 9. Staffel aircrew could certainly help clear this up.
Good to see you here, Larry!

The location is Jeziaryšča or Aziaryšča in modern English transliteration, much easier to find when starting to search from the wartime Cyrillic name, Езерище

See "Geschwaderkennung TC ?" thread on Forum der Wehrmacht for another loss in this area, this one of KG 53.
https://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/i...derkennung-tc/

Jeziaryšča is 20 kilometres south of Nevel, just across the modern border between Russia and Belarus. Ułła or Ula is a settlement at the confluence of the eponymous river and the Daugava, 100 kilometres south-southwest of Nevel. Rudnya is 240 kilometres south-southeast of Nevel. Soviet armies were attempting to break into Belarus from Nevel and Rudnya simultaneously. An enormous static battle ensued over the course of many months, similar to Verdun or the Somme, with Soviet forces suffering catastrophic losses. Only Operation Bagration in late June 1944 changed the situation in this theatre.

Regards,

Dan
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Old 25th June 2019, 21:23
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Oblt.Klaus Lohe 9/KG4 LOST 7.10.43

Thanks, Dan! I knew you would get to the bottom of this if given a few minutes. I'm at a big disadvantage when it comes to the Russian language. How the Germans managed to come up with Jeserischtschi out of Jeziaryšča beats me, unless some letters got changed along the way somewhere, especially the "J", which the Germans almost always render as a "Y", and the final letter, "i" instead of "a". The Cyrillic "sh" into The German "sch" and "ch" into "tsch" are standard, of course. The Deutsche Heereskarte, Osteuropa 1:300,000, Blatt Nr. V 56 Witebsk, Stand: 15 Nov. 1943, clearly shows the village with the spelling "Jeserischtschi". But it would have been difficult to find without your help, Dan!

L.
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Old 25th June 2019, 21:41
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: Oblt.Klaus Lohe 9/KG4 LOST 7.10.43

Larry,


Being Eastern European myself, I am usually surprised at the change of spelling and pronunciation of a place when the Germans do it. All of those accent marks need to be accounted for and they sometimes are or are not.


My 2 cents,
Ed
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Old 26th June 2019, 14:07
Dan History Dan History is offline
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Re: Oblt.Klaus Lohe 9/KG4 LOST 7.10.43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry deZeng View Post
Thanks, Dan!

How the Germans managed to come up with Jeserischtschi out of Jeziaryšča beats me, unless some letters got changed along the way somewhere, especially the "J", which the Germans almost always render as a "Y", and the final letter, "i" instead of "a". The Cyrillic "sh" into The German "sch" and "ch" into "tsch" are standard, of course.
You are very welcome, Larry!

During the war, the Germans were largely working from Russian-language maps, and they would often render the Cyrillic letter 'е' at the beginning of the word as 'Je' in German. Examples are Егорьевск - Jegorjewsk and Ейск - Jejsk or Jeisk. So far, fairly simple. The problem with Jeserischtschi and many other places in Belarus and Ukraine is that there are alternate Cyrillic spellings. The Russian one is Езерище, the Belarusian one is Езярышча. It appears that the Germans combined the two Cyrillic versions to get Езеришче. That would give Jeserischtsche, with the standard romanisations of "ш" as "sch" and "ч" as "tsch", as you described. As the following text describing the German defensive operations in 1943 shows, Jeserischtsche was the preferred Heer spelling of this locality:

Quote:
Zur Begründung wird ausgeführt: Im Herbst 1943 stand die deutsche 2. Panzer-Armee im Mittelabschnitt der Ostfront in schweren Abwehrkämpfen um Witebsk. Über Newel, das die sowjetischen Truppen bereits am 7. Oktober eingenommen hatten, war der Gegner im November weiter nach Südwesten bis etwa 20 Kilometer westlich von Gorodok vorgedrungen, seine Angriffe entlang der Rollbahn nach Süden konnten jedoch bei Lobok am Jeserischtsche-See, 30 km nördlich von Gorodok, bis Anfang Dezember aufgehalten werden. Hier verteidigte die 21. Infanterie-Division einen breiten Abschnitt, der sich vom Ordowo-See über Kaiki bis Olschaniki erstreckte. Dabei musste zeitweise eine Kampfgruppe zur Verstärkung der benachbarten 129. Infanterie-Division abgegeben werden.
The Germans struggled with the Russian letter 'щ', which the standard romanisation of which is 'shch'. Witness the case of the airfield at the railway station of Сещинская, close to the settlement of Сеща. This appears on maps as Sjeschtschinsk, Sseschinskaja or Sseschtscha, and Luftwaffe units called it Seschtschinskaja or Seschtschinskaya. In most of these cases, the letter 'щ' was romanised as if it was the letter combination 'шч', as in the case of Jeserischtsche. This is why the longer and unreadable consonant sequence 'schtsch' was substituted for the simpler 'shch'.

Regards,

Dan
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Old 20th July 2019, 12:21
Dan History Dan History is offline
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Re: Oblt.Klaus Lohe 9/KG4 LOST 7.10.43

Here are some Luftwaffe reconnaissance images of Jeserischtsche / Jeziaryšča:

http://www.wwii-photos-maps.com/targ...%20%20014.html

http://www.wwii-photos-maps.com/targ...%20%20015.html

Regards,

Dan
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