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  #1  
Old 31st March 2005, 21:15
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Ruy Horta Ruy Horta is offline
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Where PC simulation meets serious research...

...or how Ferdinando D'Amico and Gabriele Valentini made good use of a flight sim!

I'll make no secret of it, I like flight sims, more accurately I like combat (flight) sims. To my surprise I found that certain a/c profiles in their latest ANR book are actually 3d models from the flight sim series IL2 Sturmovik / Forgotten Battles, by Russian developer Oleg Maddox and published by Ubisoft.

It is interesting how this synergy is growing stronger.

Flight sim models are getting more accurate every day, both their shape and performance, it is not surprising that their camouflage and markings are following suit. It may be arguable, but at some level these game / sim developers may actually catching up with serious researchers when it comes to the understanding of historic combat a/c in many aspects of their design and operational use. Their particular work may even be said to bridge the separate disciplines of serious research (structure, camouflage and markings or operational use).

Some time ago I was offered the use of mid level 3d (game) models of a number of a/c to use for profiles, but I didn't dare to use them, in part for fear of ridicule (these models although mid level are actually very good and wouldn't shame a book cover or any game - actually they are still being used in a game today ).

It appears to me that these games are not so "gamey" anymore and finally growing up.

Couldn't help myself but I just had to break the ice
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  #2  
Old 31st March 2005, 23:07
Boandlgramer Boandlgramer is offline
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Re: Where PC simulation meets serious literature...

being also a " old " flysimmer.
first AW, then red baron and to talk about olegs masterpiece,my time here goes back to the beta tests of the IL2 series.

i am looking forward to the "new" patch, and of course to the new FM. ( as always )
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Old 3rd April 2005, 13:51
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Re: Where PC simulation meets serious research...

My first sims were on a C64, but it really kicked of in 1991 when I got Red Baron on the PC (286/16Mhz) and later that year with Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe.

After that I was hooked.

Aces of the Pacific
Aces over Europe
Pacific Air War
Falcon 3
Tornado
Hind

To name but a few that really stuck with me, but it was Warbirds that really changed the way I looked at sims. Although I tried Air Warrior once in 1995, there soon came the opportunity to join a free open beta for Confirmed Kill.

Confirmed Kill was the precursor to what we now know as Warbirds. Once you've experienced virtual combat with tens or even hundred plus people you'll never look at these games in the same way again. The difference between Artificial Intelligence driven enemies and real humans is too big, the experience uncomparable even today, and IMHO for some time to come.

People are unpredictable, he can be a virtual veteran or a first time player, he might have spotted you, you may have surprised him etc etc etc The experience is much closer to what we've read about. No, as a game it is something totally different - multiplayer.

After 7 years of Warbirds, at that time in its 3rd incarnation which I didn't like as much as the 2nd one, there came a free alternative that was almost as good in terms of multiplay and superior as a sim: IL2.

So how many years have we been playing the Il2 series?

Is it already four years, albeit in its 3rd incarnation - Forgotten Battles + Ace Expansion Pack + Pacific Fighters?

Haven't been online much lately, but I am really looking forward to patch 4.0 which will introduce us to the new flight model, giving us a glimse of the sequal Battle of Britain (working title only).

If your PC is up to it, try to get Forgotten Battles+Ace Expansion Pack at bargain prices, and I even believe you can get the latest add on Pacific Fighters at similar bargain prices.

You won't be sorry.
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Old 7th April 2005, 01:58
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Re: Where PC simulation meets serious research...

Sad to say but my computer power limits me to just early sims. And my favourite three are RD3D, EAW and MiG Alley. Surprisingly there is still quite a crowd of online players for both EAW and RB3D, which is much more fun than AI.

When I do get around to upgrading my computer though Look out Forgotten Battles and Pacific Fighters. Two of my favourite theatres.

Now if only someone could do the Pacific properly. And the Med. I was so bummed when Dynamix pulled the plug on sims, and cancelled their Mediterranean (Desert Warriors?) sim. It would have been an excellent fllow on th EAW.
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Old 22nd April 2005, 17:48
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Re: Where PC simulation meets serious research...

EAW and RB3D never caught my imagination, but back than I was already hooked on Warbirds and its multiplay enviorment. Mig Alley was quite novel, and I really miss the modern equivalent of a good Korean era sim.

Target is working on a multiplay Korean sim, but it has been quite a while since I last checked on its progress (open beta).

Maddox (Il2/Forgotten Battles) is supposedly planning to include the Med. as an add on development for their upcoming Battle of Britain sim engine. You are absolutely right wrt the lack of Med. in sims.
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  #6  
Old 15th May 2005, 03:13
fsbofk fsbofk is offline
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Re: Where PC simulation meets serious research...

Regarding your comment that flight sim game models might be used to illustrate books ... Claes Sundin, who created the profiles for "Luftwaffe Fighter Aircraft in Profile" and "More Luftwaffe Fighter Aircraft in Profile" (published by Schiffer), has created aircraft skins that can be downloaded at http://www.cptfarrels.com/Sundin/sundin.html for use in IL2/FB ... so it has come full circle. He also has his own website, which has a link to this site !
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Old 29th May 2005, 07:50
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Re: Where PC simulation meets serious research...

Well if you want to see a sim which offers the most to modders besides just skins and missions, try CFS3. There are 2 great new projects in the works; MAW at http://www.medairwar.com/index.html and OFF at http://off.oldbrowndog.net/. Meanwhile some of us are trying to recreate in detail the Bomber Command/Nachtjagd War; still in its preliminary stage.
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Old 3rd June 2005, 03:29
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Re: Where PC simulation meets serious research...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruy Horta
To my surprise I found that certain a/c profiles in their latest ANR book are actually 3d models from the flight sim series IL2 Sturmovik / Forgotten Battles, by Russian developer Oleg Maddox and published by Ubisoft.
Only a late (but due) precisation: yes, it's true that for our top & bottom plan-views showing camouflage schemes we choose to use images obtained by using the 3D engine of flight sims (I'm a fan of Oleg Maddox sims...), but models from "Il-2" were used only for the Bf 109 series (courtesy of Pierre Alfaro's talent).

The plan-views for the Macchi C.205s were instead obtained from Warbirds3 (another sim I flew for years) - thanks to Roger Carley, AKA Xaero -, as the Macchi has not, to date, been introduced yet into the Russian sim (there's still hope...).

The G.55 instead is a pure 3D creation of the highly talented illustrator Stefano Tartarotti.

I think you can understand that there precisations were necessary and extremely due, especially towards those who were of invaluable help...
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