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  #1  
Old 28th February 2010, 16:18
leclerc1944 leclerc1944 is offline
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Take off Count???

hi!
is possible, that here a specialist, can me answer or done explain, about count we are done as take off per day.

exemple:
Quote:
on June 22 at 29.09.41 g. regiment carried out 3145 combat missions
because here i don't realy understand, we make it possible to 1 Air Fighter Regiment, to take off 3145x in a total of 96-97 Days!


Is count, counted if more, if Regiment have should send 3-4 squadron in different Interception mission?

thank's
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Old 1st March 2010, 02:08
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
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Re: Take off Count???

Can we have a little more information? Which nation and unit is flying these missions? Is it all on the one day or over nearly 100 days? What word is Regiment a translation of?

I suspect we are looking at sorties, which is one aircraft flight, rather than missions, which could involve a large number of aircraft
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Old 1st March 2010, 16:06
leclerc1944 leclerc1944 is offline
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Re: Take off Count???

hi Graham boak,

Take off is not in one day, is nearly 100 Days so from 22.06.1941 to 29.09.1941 = "97 Days".

Word Regiment = IAP (Russian "Air Fighter Regiment")

And amount or Count of plane we have this regiment = 69 I-16 and I-153 Model of plane.

in another Regiment i have read that 30 Fighter pilot = 3 fighter squadron. So if i count "69" amount of plane from this regiment, so this done 5-7 Fighters Squadron.

and here this are full text about 19th.IAP

Quote:
To 22.06.41 g. it was armed with 69 aircraft I -16, I -153 (including 15 defective), and also 2 non operational LaGG-3,wo Pilot not yet mastered.


From the first days of war the pilots daily carried out on 5-6 combat missions during the day. Manifesting courage and bravery, faithfulness to military oath, bravely he joined the battle by exceeding enemy.


On 07.07.41 g. entered into the composition 7th. IAK PVO (Air Defense) of Leningrad.
Defending Leningrad, on June 22 to 29.09.41 regiment carried out (take off) 3145 combat missions, of them she Defending Leningrad 2826 time. Guarding city from the enemy attacks, the pilots of part together with the attached group 7th. IAP brought down 63 aircraft of enemy. Its own losses: perished 44 aircraft even 17 pilots, but 13 crews did not return from the combat missions.
Because here in text, on start, is explain, that it make 5-6 Take off per day, and after to same date is done 3145 take off.

So for me, here i don't really understand it.

So ex. if i divide 3145/97 = 32,42 Take off per day.
So this amount don't go to 5-6 Combat mission per day.
but is 6x greater, this is reason, that i think, that the count can be are more counted into Squadron (5-7 squadrons per Fighter regiment).

And here to Leningrad Area, we should hold this information.
Quote:
territory lies north of the Arctic Circle and at the country's northernmost point the sun does not set for 73 days during summer. In Svalbard, Norway, the northernmost inhabited region of Europe, there is no sunset from approximately 19 April to 23 August. The extreme sites are the poles where the sun can be continuously visible for a half year.
so if i divide 24 hours with 6 missions per day = 1 mission per 4 hours.
So time to refit fuel, armament and a little time to sleep.

Last edited by leclerc1944; 1st March 2010 at 16:38.
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Old 2nd March 2010, 18:33
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
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Re: Take off Count???

OK, I understand the problem now.

I think we can rule out the idea that the 3145 applies to missions using the normal definition, for that would assume the unit was tasked with over 33 missions per day. This appears excessive, even for an oversized Regiment.

I don't know of regiments reaching the size you suggest, and suspect that 3 (or perhaps 4) squadrons would be more likely.

I would also rule out the suggestion that each pilot flew 5-6 sorties a day, every day. I think this should be read as the unit (perhaps the squadron rather than the Regiment) flew this as a peak effort, perhaps fairly often.

The other point to consider is that the unit will have declined in strength as time went on. I believe this was normal operating procedure for the VVS, rather than keeping the unit at full strength at all time. So the number of missions flown will be more earlier in the period, less later, reducing the average.

The normal tactical unit of the VVS was four aircraft, so an average of eight such missions a day for the Regiment would not be unreasonable, with fewer when weather restricted (or just on a quiet day in a long war!) and more under surge conditions. That's close to an average of three 4-aircraft missions per day for three squadrons.

This suggests that the 3145 applies to sorties, in the normal Western definition.

However, if you do believe in 7 squadrons, then each flying 5 missions every day for 97 days will give you the 3145 missions. This need not mean each pilot flew on every mission for his squadron, but I do think this level of committment is excessive.

I realise that much of the above relies upon logic rather than proven fact.
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Old 3rd March 2010, 03:19
leclerc1944 leclerc1944 is offline
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Re: Take off Count???

yes, you have reason with amount of Squadron in regiment, i have read bad exemple, because, in one other Regiment report, it was spoke about 3x I-16 squadron and 1x I-153 squadron and this regiment contain total amount of 66 Pilot.
So Fighter Regiment has a middle amount of 60 fighter Pilot = 4 Fighter Squadron. (15 per Fighter squadron, = no difference between size with as European Fighter squadron, is same size)

so now, it's sure, by many other Regiment, have report the size of Plane amount = 60-70 Plane into June 1941 Month (before the 22.june 1941).
and sure, so you have explain it, on the amount of sorties she was calculate on full strength of plane we Regiment has on start of war, and so each lose of plane, have reduce this amount to done a better average amount.


and many thnx to you'r explain, now i have all understand we the amount was calculate.
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