BF 109G-10 77022. New gen

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Agreed, hindsight is not acceptable. Grazie mille, Ferdinando!

Cheers
Marc

[veltro]

Originally Posted by ouidjat

I don't know, but from an extract - a photocopy - from one of your book for sure. In the same listing we can find a G-16 too ... must be a typo.
That the code was or not used isn't explained.

That was in 1984 and three more books have been published since, correcting and improving info.

Moreover, even then the "2-5" was indicated as "cancelled", which, even for inexperienced authors as we were at that time, was some sort of indication, or at least we thought so...

Nor that I blame me or you for that, only that there are many info in the ANR section of that old Monogram book that were incorrect and I for first would not suggest at all to use it as an historical reference for the topic... we tried to improve research and accuracy in the following 25 or so years, so forgive me if I try to correct info that is not correct, even coming from me.

It is part of the ethic of research, I guess.

[ouidjat]

Hello,

Why I have W.Nr.770338 found in Bolzano and not in Campoformio???
Cheers, Franck.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by ouidjat

Hello,

Why I have W.Nr.770338 found in Bolzano and not in Campoformio???
Cheers, Franck.

I don't know, why do you have 770338 in Bolzano?

You didn't get it from "Party B, No. 1 Field Intelligence Report No. 24" (about Bolzano). The same unit's Report No. 31 clearly lists that machine at Campoformido.

[veltro]

I would like to "resurrect" the thread about this aircraft, because of new evidence.

The first new mention was in this thread over LEMB (http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/fo...991#entry90856) which pointed attention to a series of exceptional photographic archives of former SAAF pilots containing also images of captured or abandoned enemy aircraft.

The next step was to go to the source (http://hannesfaure.yolasite.com/photographs.php) and looking at everything.

In doing so, I have found that the albums of Lt. Cecil Golding does contain some incredible material (especially concerning ANR aircraft), but in particular the same image of W.Nr. 770 22x which was posted here.

This fact brought two new elements: source and context.

It seems clear that we have found the primary source for that photo, which was a SAAF pilot (Cecil Golding) who ended the war as CO of SAAF No.3 Squadron in Italy. Among his photographs there were some shot in captured Northern Italy airfields (especially Villafranca)... and the one of 770 22x.

Not only: there is a second photograph of another late Bf 109 (no. 259 here - http://saafww2photographs.yolasite.c...-general-3.php which was apparently taken in the same location and seems (to me, at least) another recce aircraft.

Thus, considering the source and context new info, I would like to change my opinion and, notwithstanding the fact that the Allied Air Intelligence Unit files does not report the "770 22x" as found in Italy (or elsewhere, for that count), I am now more than seriously convinced that it was photographed along with its companion in the dispersal area of a very Italian airfield (Campoformido or even Villafranca itself)...

Thanks for your attention.

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Buondi Ferdinando,

Thanks for your much appreciated valuation of those new pictures! The fact that they might after all be shot in Italy do make things easier regarding to the surrounding, quite southern, vegetation. After having checked both pictures, I arrive to the conclusion that both do represent the same Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 770 22x "Kleine Weisse 7" of a yet to identify NAGr.
- Notice the blown engine lying at the same canted angle
- Notice the rudder and tailplane canted at the same angle

That there was a time span between the two shots is exemplified by the much greater damage seen on the fuselage, between the cockpit and the Balkenkreuz. This difference is not sufficient IMHO for establishing with certainty the presence of two different G-10's. I keep thus a cautious approach with one plane shown by two different pictures.

Cheers and thanks again
Marc

PS: the Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr 160 319 "14 Giallo" is another extraordinary shot...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

[veltro]

Agreed. After a second examination the plane should be the same in the two photographs.

What left me off was the different damage on fuselage and engine in the two images. This wasn't going to collime with the same person making two different pictures at the same subject in two separate occasions, considering also that the pilot wasn't based there... But this is a further proof that logic isn't always the only path to follow...

Concerning the "14 giallo" of 2º Gruppo Caccia, the most surprising thing is that I had already found a few years ago a different picture of it taken by an US soldier...

[Freddy]

To be precise in Tissano there was no runway. Which is mistakenly referred to with this name is that one, in concrete, of Risano, (that is another nearby village) and is located approximately 2.5 km north of the well known airfield of Lavariano.
Risano is a new airfield whose construction started in November 1943 and that was abandoned in July-August 1944. At that time, only the east-west part (still in use) was finished, while of the other runaway, oriented north-south, existed only the underpinning made ​​of gravel, today not detectable. The still existing strip is now used by factory of ultralight aircraft and can be easily identified in Google Earth at coordinates 45 ° 58'7 .00 "N 13 ° 14'8 .00" E

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Ferdinando,

All ok then, but for the question as to where those shots were taken. Having "14 Giallo" also in this serie might indicate indeed Villafranca...

Freddy, I'm not sure what Tissano and Risano airfield do mean here. As a possible location for Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 770 22x?

Cheers
Marc

[Freddy]

Ciao Marc,
I wanted only to made clear that Tissano, who had been mentioned at the beginning of this thread by Stefaan and then resumed several times by others, did not exist.
In fact very often there is confusion between Risano and Lavariano who were two distinct airfields.
The confusion between Tissano-Risano but also Chiasiellis, all places very close to each other, comes from the fact that Tissano and Chiasiellis, as well as Lavariano were all airfields in use during World War I, while the first two were abandoned and turned into fields after that War, only Lavariano, which was the largest and most important, had continued to be used until at least 1946/1947.

With respect to the 77 022? I checked in my database of Luftwaffe aircraft lost or abandoned on the airfields of Friuli at the end of the war, but I have no Bf 109 with a similar W.Nr.. It must be said, however, that of many of the aircraft I recorded I couldn't find out the W.Nr.