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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#11
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Re: 1.98ata testing
On fuel and methanol, http://anesi.com/ussbs02.htm#taoo
Of interest is the comment on methanol production. |
#12
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Re: 1.98ata testing
Kutscha,
many thanks for your Information, did not knew this one. Carl
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Carl E. Charles |
#13
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Re: 1.98ata testing
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Thanks for this information, it was new to me about the early testing of the 1,98 ata boost in October November 1944. It fits in well with the 1 December 1944 DB 605DB/DC manual, which lists both 1,8 and 1,98ata for the DB / DC engine respectively. It also confirms that the ASM and D series engine development was converging at this point, with the ASM becoming / was upgraded to ASB/ASC engines, i.e. roughly equivalent to the DB/DC but using the A-series engine as a basis. I presume they were a hybrid of A and D series engines, much like the G-10 being a hybrid of G airframes with K internal equipment. Quote:
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One particular note is that the Gruppe says that there was little tactical opportunity to use the special boost, since tactical conditions on the Eastern Front seldom required using high powers in the first place. Quote:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...1&d=1525080386 Add to that that a week later a new technical instruction (Reperatur Anweisung was issued for the DB 605DB/DC on 1st March 1945, that notes that some changes are required for the B-4 fueled DB, but none for the 1,98ata DC engines suggest that the main culprit was the declining production quality of B-4 fuel, but since C-3s quality's was not effected, no changes were required to the DC engine. Quote:
C-3 production was not particularly elaborate, AFAIK it merely consisted of that B-4 was blended with approx. 20% iso-octanes, which was AFAIK the only difference between the two grades. Of iso-octanes, there were still relatively generous reserves - but no more forthcoming after the Auschwitz synthethic plant was overrun - with the Luftwaffe becoming increasingly 'creative' to solve the avgas issue for piston engine warplanes at this point it was even considered to run planes on pure isooctane as a last resort. Avgas (i.e. base stock~) in general was indeed in short supply by 1945. Since base stock was in short supply, but isooctane was not, it would actually make sense to blend more C-3 since it contained 20% additives, meaning you could actually more usable avgas from the base fuel. As of end of Febuary 1945, the stocks of A3, B4, C3 avgas was cc 52 000 tons, while isooctane stocks amounted to cc 24 000 tons. Given that you needed to blend 20% iso-octane to get C-3, it follows that the isooctane stocks alone would have been sufficient to make 120 000 tons of C-3 - if there have been enough base stocks in the beginning! It also worths mentioning that there were also trials with B-4 blending with 2% anilin and 0.16 TEL, which basically made B-4 equivalent of C-3. So it would appear that the differences between B-4 and C-3 become blurry by the end of the war, performance wise it appear that they have become similar fuels, but produced from different blending agents. The following is the ANR's fuel delivery and stocks as of early 1945 via 'Air War Italy' by Ferdinando D'Amico / Gabriele Valentini / Nick Beale. It is notable that the ANR was operating mostly 109s and that C-3 shipments were dominant in 1945, to an air force that was probably not taking priority for fuel over German units. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...1&d=1525080386 Similiarly, some fragments of the stocks of B4/C3/J2 stocks at the airfields under LWKdo West in April do not really indicate that C-3 would have been preciously scarce vs B-4. By this point the Germans were using the last fuel reserves anyway and decision was already made to stop almost all piston engine production and switch to jets almost entirely, since their J-2 jet fuel was far more available than normal avgas. On April 22 1945 Luftwaffenkommando West reported the following fuel stocks on airfields in Bavaria: B-4 = 350,000 liters C-3 = 284,000 liters J-2 = 1,897,000 liters Quote:
Indeed Luftflotte 6 in mid-March reported the fuel allocation accordingly, and its noteworthy that Eastern Front 109s were relying chiefly on B4, with some notable exceptions like IV/JG 4 and II/JG 11 - I suppose this was also have to do with simplifying fuel logistics to a single C-3 fuel for units which had both 190As and 109s. BTW this would also make IV/JG 4 a strong candidate for 109s operating 1.98ata in the East (apart from II/JG11) http://www.kurfurst.org/Operations/1...ftflotte6.html
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Kurfürst! - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site http://www.kurfurst.org/ |
#14
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Re: 1.98ata testing
This US estimate of relative B4 and C3 production from March 1943 May also prove interesting for the subject.
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Kurfürst! - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site http://www.kurfurst.org/ |
#15
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Re: 1.98ata testing
Regarding use of higher boost on the Eastern front, from the memoires of Lt. TOBAK Tibor of 101. Fighter Regiment of the RHAF (stationed at Veszprém airfield at the time), reflecting on the period between 26th February - 21st March 1945.
[...]Aztán félórás beszélgetés során sok mindent megtudtam. A lényeg: amolyan vihar előtti csend van. Új gépeket kapott az ezred, a G-10-esek beceneve „Kövér Messzer", mert nagyobb a kompresszoruk meg a motordekli, vagyis a motorháztető. A légcsavarlapátok is szélesebbek, nagyobb az oldalkormány is. A motor maximális teljesítménye 8000 méteren 2000 LE, de a fiúk szerint 6000-ig jobb lenne egy Fritz — az „F" jelű sorozatból — vagy a Győrben gyártott G—6-osok. "Then in half an hour chat, I have learned a lot. The main point is, there is a kind of silence before the storm. The Regiment has received new machines. the G-10s are nicknamed "Fat Messer," due to their bigger compressor and a bonnet. The propeller blades are also wider, and the rudder is larger too. The engine's maximum output is 2000 horsepower at 8000 meters, but the boys say a 'Fritz' - from the "F" series - or for the G-6s manufactured in Győr would be better up 6000." Via TOBAK Tibor's 'Pumák földön-égen' - Pumas on the ground and in the sky, pp. 217. Regarding C-3 on the Eastern Front - apparently it was also supplied to He 111s of KG units. In 12 October 1944, Lt. Tobak and his wingman was short on fuel landed in an airfield in Hungary, occupied by a German bomber unit. 'Néhány mondatban megbeszéljük a történteket. Magyar gép és ejtőernyős egy se, gondolom, éppen házon kívül vannak, talán a Kárpátokban? Német bombázókkal van tele a repülőtér, legalább egy ezred. Heinkeleik az olvadó hóra vannak már „kamuflálva", sötétszürke alapon világosabb szürke pettyek díszítik őket. Az óránkra nézünk: mindjárt négy óra. Nemsokára lemegy a nap, jó lesz benzint szerezni. Tudtuk, mely repülőtereken lehet a nekünk szükséges B4 jelű, 86 oktános kék benzint vételezni, de itt hiába járjuk be a gondnokságot és az őrszázad-parancsnokságot, semmi! Jól nézünk ki. Nem marad más, mint a „sógorok". Boldizsárt a gépeknél hagyjuk, nehogy valami „kiépüljön" belőlük (ejtőernyők, térképek stb.) és Dzsóval a német parancsnokságra battyogunk. Cipzáras Messzer-csizmáinkban úgy nézhetünk ki, mint Zoro és Huru (de ezt akkor nem mertem Dzsó tudomására hozni). Hanem amilyen kicsi volt, annál paprikavörösebben üvöltött Dzsó öt perc múlva a német bombázók parancsnokával, „Bombergeschwader Kommodore"-jával. A fölényeskedő alezredes lovagkeresztjét rázva a felindulástól, az asztalt verte és megesküdött, hogy egy csepp benzint sem ad! Egyrészt, mert tiszteletlenül betörtünk az irodájába, másrészt pedig azért, mert csak zöld C3 jelű benzinje van Jumo és BMW motorjaihoz, amivel mi: „Werden sofort nach dem Start abstürzen und kaputt gehen" vagyis rögtön start után lezuhanunk és összetörjük magunkat. Dzsó az íróasztalon áthajolva teli torokkal üvöltötte, hogy ő, mármint a német lesz a felelős, ha egy egész vadászszázad holnap parancsnok nélkül marad! Ez hatott. Kiadta a parancsot, hogy tankoljanak fel minket. De kijelentette, hogy a magasabb (100) oktánszámú benzin miatt mindhárman meghalunk, és ő ezt nem akarja látni, ezért azonnal a szállására megy. Derűs vigyorgással és egy benzinkiutaló jeggyel loholtunk a gépekhez. Már fél öt volt. Kértük a német benzineseket, hogy két kocsiból kezdjenek tankolni, hogy még világosban érhessünk Veszprémbe. A veszprémi repülőtérnek ugyanis ekkor még semmilyen felszerelése nem volt az éjszakai leszálláshoz. A németek hajthatatlanok voltak. Ők csak egy kocsit használnak, az van szolgálatban, két kocsira nincs parancs, és egyéb német kifogások.' Translates as follows: We discuss what happened in a few sentences. Not one Hungarian aircraft and paratrooper, maybe they are not at home, perhaps in the Carpathians. The airfield is full of German bombers, at least a regiment of them. The Heinkels are camouflaged for melting snow, with lighter grey spots on a dark gray base. We take a glance at our watch: it's already four o'clock. The sun will set soon - we better get some gasoline. We knew on which airfields we could get the B4 gasoline that we needed, but here there is no use going to the janitor's house or the sentry company's HQ, there is nothing! -Nice prospects. We have to visit our "brothers-in-law" then. We leave Boldizsár at the machines, lest some things would become 'built-out' from it (parachutes, maps, etc.), and with 'Joe' we pay a visit to the German command. In our zippered Messer-boots, we look like Zorro and Huru (though I did not dare say this to Joe). The small stature Joe was built, the more paprika-red Joe was screaming for five minutes with the commander of the German bombers, the 'Bombergeschwader Kommodore'. The arrogant Colonel was shaking his Knight's Cross, beating the table and swore that he would not give a drop of gasoline! On the one hand, because we have disrespectfully broke into his office and on the other hand, because he has only the green C3 gasoline for his Jumo and BMW engines, with which we shall "Werden sofort nach dem Start abstürzen und kaputt gehen", i.e. immediately craft right after takeoff and die. Joe leaned over the table and shouted that he, the German will be responsible, if tomorrow a whole fighter squadron would be without commander tomorrow. This proved effective. He gave the order to refuel us. But he added that because of the higher (100) octane gasoline, we will all die and since he does not want to see that, he goes to his lodging right away. We grinned delightfully and run to the machines with a gasoline ticket. It was half past five already. We asked the German gasoline crew to fill us up with two tanker truck so we may get to Veszprém while there is still light. At that time, Veszprém airfield did not have any equipment for night landing. The Germans were inexcusable. They use only one tanker truck, the one which is in service, there are no orders for two tanker trucks - and so on with other German objections.'
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Kurfürst! - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site http://www.kurfurst.org/ Last edited by Kurfürst; 30th April 2018 at 14:35. |
#16
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Re: 1.98ata testing
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I have seen 3 original instrument panels brought back by US Veterans (removed from Fw190)...I owned 2 of them. Both had the 2.0 Ladedruckmesser installed, and both were original to the panels. It was installed in the Me109G-10 (DB605DC), Me109G-14/AS (DB605 ASC), the Me109K-4 (DB605DC); and the Fw190D-9 (Jumo 213 A and C) and Ta-152H (Jumo 213E). Mike Last edited by harrison987; 6th April 2020 at 02:02. |
#17
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Re: 1.98ata testing
Hi Mike. Yes, I have a 2.0 ata marked Ladedruckmesser from a late 109. As far as the Jumo 213 powered D-9 goes, I think that is where the 2.5 ata Ladedruckmesser was used in the later versions. I think that is in a larger-faced casing than the 109 item. Cheers
SM |
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