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  #1  
Old 10th October 2019, 14:53
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srob48 srob48 is offline
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Poncet or Ponzet? 2/JG54

Hi,
I am having a problem with: 31st March 1941. 2/JG54. Messerschmitt Bf109E(4848). Domestic flight. Crashed near Wesermünde, Germany. Fw. Paul Poncet (FF) killed. Aircraft a write-off.

According to Prien, Teil 5, Page 121, he says "8th March 1941, Werk.Nr.4843, and name Paul Ponzet".

I have checked with the VDK, and they have no record of Poncet or Ponzet for either date.

I would be grateful if anyone could confirm 100% which is correct, and if they know where Poncet is buried (Private grave somewhere?)

Thank you,
Steve
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Old 10th October 2019, 15:18
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is online now
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Re: Poncet or Ponzet? 2/JG54

I have 31 March and his grave should be at Rathenow Friedhof. I also have name Poncet, although the NVM has name Ponzet.

According to my database WNr. 4843 was lost on 5 Aug 1942 at Uhtua/Finland, when Uffz Kurt Philipp landed unintentionally at the Soviet airfield and become POW.

Matti
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Old 10th October 2019, 15:28
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Re: Poncet or Ponzet? 2/JG54

Thank you Matti for clearing that up.

Unusual for Prien to get it wrong, but at least I was right for a change! Thank you for the grave location too, I will now enter this on my register.

Much appreciated.
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Old 10th October 2019, 18:26
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Poncet or Ponzet? 2/JG54

Hi,

in comparison with the NVM:
Gen.Qu. loss return 7 Aug 1942 item 76
5 Aug 42 7./JG 5 Feindflug Ort: bei Uchta, Ursache: Notlandung auf Feindgebiet bei Überführungsflug, Flugzeug verbrannt, Bf 109 E-7 4843 (weiße 6) 100%. Uffz Kurt Phillipp vermisst

JFV 9/III page 484
05.08.42 7./JG 5 Uffz Kurt Philipp KG, verorientiert, Notlandung Uchte, 100%. Bf 109 E-7 4834 (divergent WNr.!) ws 6.

Regards
Leo
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Old 10th October 2019, 19:31
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Poncet or Ponzet? 2/JG54

Steve

I notice you have had a lot of questions lately.
It would be very interesting to know the initial source you quote when comparing with other information available.

Cheers
Stig
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Old 10th October 2019, 19:49
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Poncet or Ponzet? 2/JG54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rottler View Post
in comparison with the NVM:
Gen.Qu. loss return 7 Aug 1942 item 76
5 Aug 42 7./JG 5 Feindflug Ort: bei Uchta, Ursache: Notlandung auf Feindgebiet bei Überführungsflug, Flugzeug verbrannt, Bf 109 E-7 4843 (weiße 6) 100%. Uffz Kurt Phillipp vermisst
Three aircraft force landed at the same place, Uchta or Uchte, on 5 Aug 1942

Were they all on a transfer flight?
Also can anyone point me to where this place is situated? Google maps comes up with either a place in Germany or another one in central Russia, none of which are very plausible....

Cheers
Stig
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Old 10th October 2019, 20:08
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Re: Poncet or Ponzet? 2/JG54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik View Post
Three aircraft force landed at the same place, Uchta or Uchte, on 5 Aug 1942

Were they all on a transfer flight?
Also can anyone point me to where this place is situated? Google maps comes up with either a place in Germany or another one in central Russia, none of which are very plausible....

Cheers
Stig

Uhtua, Finland !
Those guys pretend to make historical researches but no one care to check what is written, what they write and so on ...
Sorry to tell it like this but starts - since very long time in fact - to make me friendly upset.
Cheers,
Franck.
https://www.google.fr/maps/place/722...8!4d26.8207384
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Old 10th October 2019, 20:18
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Poncet or Ponzet? 2/JG54

Quote:
Originally Posted by ouidjat View Post
Uhtua, Finland !
Those guys pretend to make historical researches but no one care to check what is written, what they write and so on ...
Sorry to tell it like this but starts - since very long time in fact - to make me friendly upset.
Cheers,
Franck.
https://www.google.fr/maps/place/722...8!4d26.8207384
Franck

Since these aircraft cannot have force landed at Uchtua in Finland and pilots becoming POWs in the process, are you saying the transfer was between Uchtua and probably Petsamo and that the actual place of force landing is unknown?

Cheers
Stig
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Old 10th October 2019, 20:49
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Poncet or Ponzet? 2/JG54

Hello Stig,

according to JFV 9/III on 5 Aug 1942 the 7./JG 5 transferred from Petsamo to Pontsalenjoki (spelling corresponding to JFV 9/III). On the way three pilots had lost their way and made emergency landings at Uchta (spelling according to the Gen.Qu. loss returns), a Russian occupied territory where they got POW:
Lt Bodo Helms Bf 109 E-7 WNr. 4219 white 8
Uffz Werner Schumacher Bf 109 E-7 WNr. 6105 white 10
Uffz Kurt Philipp Bf 109 E-7 WNr. 4834 white 6.

Regards
Leo
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  #10  
Old 10th October 2019, 23:52
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Poncet or Ponzet? 2/JG54

Thanks Leo

Should have read the text....
Yes I know where and what Pontsalenjoki was (in Russia now)
However it does not bring us anywhere closer to this Uchta/Uchte place.

Cheers
Stig
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