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  #1  
Old 26th May 2010, 17:16
David P. Williams David P. Williams is offline
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National Archives Kew

I know that the ORBs can be found under the AIR 27s.

Once all crews had been debriefed an overall report was written by each of the individual Squadrons as to how the raid went, problems encountered, attacks by night fighters, flak etc.

I also understand a similar report was written by Bomber Command hierarchy.

Could someone tell me what these reports are called and under what AIR section i can find them for an imminent visit to Kew.

Any help would be very much appreciated,

Thanks in advance,

David.
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Old 27th May 2010, 04:06
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Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Re: National Archives Kew

I have not seen any full debriefing reports at Kew but combat reports are in AIR 50.
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Old 27th May 2010, 20:51
phasselgren phasselgren is offline
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Re: National Archives Kew

David,
There is a series of documents called Interception and tactics. I have a sample from the night 7/8 September 1941 and includes:
  • Main targets
  • Other targets
  • Bombing particulars
  • Weather
  • Routes
  • Combats
  • Encounters & other A/C seen
  • ???/searchlights/other aids to defence
  • Wireless intelligence
  • Observations
  • Summary of observations
  • Enemy claims/our losses
Information is divided per Group in most of the sections. Squadrons are not mentioned.
You can find these documents on
AIR14/2681 Vol. l, 1941 June- Sept.
AIR14/2682 Vol. ll, 1941 Oct.- Dec.
AIR14/2683 Vol. lll, 1942 Jan.- Apr.
AIR14/3741 Vol. lV,1942 May- Oct.
AIR14/3742 Vol. V, 1942 Nov.- 1943 Apr.
AIR14/3743 Vol. Vl, 1943 May-1944 Feb.
AIR14/3744 Vol. Vll, 1944 Mar.- Dec.
AIR14/3745 Vol. Vlll, 1945 Jan.- May
Regarding the combat reports you propably know already that you search the digital archive on http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/d...2aircombat.asp . I believe you can download these combat reports without cost when you visit Kew.

Regards,
Peter Hasselgren
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Old 29th May 2010, 10:22
David P. Williams David P. Williams is offline
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Re: National Archives Kew

Thank you gentlemen very much for the information.

Very much appreciated,

David.
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Old 29th May 2010, 11:11
RodM RodM is offline
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Re: National Archives Kew

Hi David,

the reports you refer to were called Forms Y and Z. The Forms Y were individual crew reports (practically none of which survive at Kew) sent from Squadrons to the Group HQ, while the Forms Z were collated reports by the Group HQs sent to BC HQ and the BC ORS.

The only Forms Z I have found at Kew (and I've searched extensively) are held in the Raid Plot: Night files in AIR 14. They are the copies telexed to the BC ORS. Sadly, the only files preserved are for selected months only between 1942-45, and even those don't include all raids during a month:

AIR 14/3213 Raid plots : night 1942 Apr.
AIR 14/3214 Raid plots : night 1942 July
AIR 14/3215 Raid plots : night 1942 Oct.
AIR 14/3216 Raid plots : night 1943 Mar.
AIR 14/3217 Raid plots : night 1943 Apr.
AIR 14/3218 Raid plots : night 1943 July
AIR 14/3219 Raid plots : night 1943 Aug.
AIR 14/3220 Raid plots : night 1943 Oct.
AIR 14/3221 Raid plots : night 1944 Mar.
AIR 14/3222 Raid plots : night 1944 Apr.
AIR 14/3223 Raid plots : night 1944 June
AIR 14/3224 Raid plots : night 1944 July
AIR 14/3225 Raid plots : night 1944 Sept.
AIR 14/3226 Raid plots : night 1944 Nov.
AIR 14/3227 Raid plots : night 1945 Jan.


Some Forms Z (only maybe one or two per file) are occasionally misfiled with another type of Group summary in the files:


AIR 14/3063 Group summaries of operations during day 1944 June
AIR 14/3064 Group summaries of operations during night 1944 June
AIR 14/3065 Group summaries of operations during day 1944 July
AIR 14/3066 Group summaries of operations during night 1944 July
AIR 14/3067 Group summaries of operations during day 1944 Aug.
AIR 14/3068 Group summaries of operations during night 1944 Aug.
AIR 14/3069 Group summaries of operations during day 1944 Sept.
AIR 14/3070 Group summaries of operations during night 1944 Sept.
AIR 14/3071 Group summaries of operations during day 1944 Oct.
AIR 14/3072 Group summaries of operations during night 1944 Oct.
AIR 14/3073 Group summaries of operations during day 1944 Nov.
AIR 14/3074 Group summaries of operations during night 1944 Nov.
AIR 14/3075 Group summaries of operations during day 1944 Dec.
AIR 14/3076 Group summaries of operations during night 1944 Dec.
AIR 14/3077 Group summaries of operations during day 1945 Jan.
AIR 14/3078 Group summaries of operations during night 1945 Jan.
AIR 14/3079 Group summaries of operations during day 1945 Feb.
AIR 14/3080 Group summaries of operations during night 1945 Feb.
AIR 14/3081 Group summaries of operations during day 1945 Mar.
AIR 14/3082 Group summaries of operations during night 1945 Mar.
AIR 14/3083 Group summaries of operations during day 1945 Apr.
AIR 14/3084 Group summaries of operations during night 1945 Apr.
AIR 14/3085 Group summaries of operations during day 1945 May
AIR 14/3137 Group summaries of operations: night 1944 Apr.- May

Searching for them in these files would be labourous for little reward.

Anyway, I've attached a PDF with data extracted from Group Form Zs - I presume this is the type of information you are seeking.

Cheers

Rod

Last edited by RodM; 25th February 2014 at 21:53.
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Old 29th May 2010, 12:10
mikew156 mikew156 is offline
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Re: National Archives Kew

Thanks Rod for posting that useful information.

Even though I have explored several different series of BC records at Kew, those that you have highlighted are still new to me. I'll take a look next time I am there.

I have found several interesting documents in the series AIR24.
They include raid reports, interception summaries, copies of K reports, reports on armaments, tactics, supply, and copies of letters sent between (for example) Harris and Portal.

I thoroughly recommend the use of a digital camera. It increases the amount of data you can during a visit massively.

Regards

Mike
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Old 30th May 2010, 05:11
RodM RodM is offline
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Re: National Archives Kew

Hi Mike,

thanks for the interesting reply. In looking through AIR 24, have you ever seen a specific monthly report entitled: 'Supplementary Narrative of Operations"? The surviving groups of these reports, scattered in various AIR files, are woefully incomplete...

Cheers

Rod
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Old 30th May 2010, 17:39
mikew156 mikew156 is offline
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Re: National Archives Kew

Rod

To give you one example;
From Air24/272

"Night Raid Report No.588
Copy Number 22
Bomber Command Report on Night Operations
26/27th April 1944
Essen: Schweinfurt: Villenueve St George: Hamburg: Chambly, etc."

Main body of report is 5 pages then 2 tables of sorties, losses, combats etc, 1 route map and at least one bomb plot (Schweinfurt).

The other operations reports that I have seen may well have been titled 'Summary Narrative' but I was mostly on the look out for other types of reports so didn't pay close attention.

I would say that there is good coverage of operations within this series.
I have concentrated on 1944 where each month is generally covered in three volumes, the last of which seems to contain the miscellaneous collection of documents e.g. reports on training, Ministry/Command correspondence, K reports etc.

Most likely the operations reports can also be found in AIR14 and I think virtually all of the K reports (loss of bomber aircraft) are copies of those in AIR14 also. Last time I was looking in AIR24 I made a note of all the K report aircraft serial numbers I came across, all but one I found in a list of AIR14 reports.

Regards

Mike
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Old 30th May 2010, 23:59
RodM RodM is offline
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Re: National Archives Kew

Hi Mike,

thanks for the answer. The likes of the K Reports, Inteception Tactics Reports, Ingelliegence Narrative of Operations reports all seem to exist in dublicate, even triplicate at TNA.

The 'Monthly Supplementary Narrative of Operations' is a gem for which not even one complete set appears to be preserved (see AIR 14/3433 for a fragmented set from 8/43-5/45; another fragment exists in AIR 50). What is so unique about this report, especially considering that the AIR 50 series is incomplete and has even been irrepairably vandalised, it that it lists and summarises all Bomber Command air combat claims accepted by BC HQ (as opposed merely to claims submitted) and tallies with the figures presented to the Air Ministry after the end of the war and considered official.

Cheers

Rod
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  #10  
Old 31st May 2010, 18:48
David P. Williams David P. Williams is offline
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Re: National Archives Kew

Rod,

Apologies for the belated reply. Many thanks once again for your help and support, it's very much appreciated.

Hope you're well, look forward to seeing you again, sometime in the future.

All the very best,

David.
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