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Pre-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation Please use this forum to discuss Military and Naval Aviation before the Second World War.

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  #1  
Old 26th April 2018, 18:02
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Two R4C-1 stories ?

Hello,
What is the stories of the two Curtis R4C-1's of the USMC, VJ-7M that were left in the Antarctic in early WW2 ?
Is their position known and could either one or both be recovered ?

Did the USN have any of these Condor types ?
Alex
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Old 27th April 2018, 00:01
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Two R4C-1 stories ?

Alex

Mostly based on Bill Larkin's books USN aircraft 1921-1941 and USMC aircraft 1914-1959 the following rough scenario can be said. I don't know how complete the lists provided in the books are. It is quite possible aircraft on overhaul or something similar are not included. Training units are not! No access to any record cards I'm afraid....

I believe both aircraft were initially delivered to both USN/USMC. A-9584 was not on USMC charge in June 1935! After service with VJ-7M one was transferred to USN or on overhaul (In Jan 1937 only one remained with VJ-7M/VMJ-2) but I don't know which one. This later came back and again we have both aircraft in use by VMJ-2 in June 1938. Both in use in Jan 1939, but both are gone from inventory in Jan 1940. There is an undated photo of A-9584 in US Navy markings. I have chosen to put it in 1934-35 rather than 1939....or so....

A very, very shaky list of the two aircraft would then be something like this.

A-9584 to USN (ca June 1934); US Antarctic Service (ca 1934-35); VJ-7M '5' in 1935-36 (somewhere between July 1935-Feb 1936); VMJ-2 '2' (ca 1938); VMJ-2 (Jan 1939) ; US Antarctic Service (1939-41); abandoned Jan 3, 1941 somewhere in Antarctica

A-9585 to VJ-6M '3' in June 1934; VJ-7M in Nov 1935; VMJ-2 (June 1938)(Jan 1939); US Antarctic Service (1939-41); abandoned on Watson Island March 22, 1941

Cheers
Stig
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Old 27th April 2018, 01:54
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: Two R4C-1 stories ?

Hello Stig,
Yes there seems to be only these two a/c in USN/USMC service in transport mode.
Thanks
Alex
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Old 27th April 2018, 11:18
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Two R4C-1 stories ?

Oh yes Alex, only two.

Perhaps I also should have mentioned that VJ-7M was redesignated VMJ-2...

Cheers
Stig
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Old 27th April 2018, 17:34
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: Two R4C-1 stories ?

Hello Stig,
I though that you did in post 2
Alex
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Old 28th April 2018, 03:43
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: Two R4C-1 stories ?

Hello,
Cannot understand why a question on WW2 a/c losses has been moved ?
I accept that the USA did not enter WW2 until December 41 but these two a/c were abandoned in the Antarctic in 1941, which if my memory has not failed me was the 3rd year of WW2 ?
Alex
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Old 28th April 2018, 11:18
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Two R4C-1 stories ?

Alex

Post 5: I guess I did, for those able to add 1+1 and get 2
But we have to remember all those not so good with complicated maths....me included....

Post 6: In a way I agree with the movement. Both aircraft were gone by the US entry in WW 2, their last two years (since 1939) were basically civil in nature and the official operator was no longer US Navy.

Cheers
Stig
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Old 1st May 2018, 20:17
RSwank RSwank is offline
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Re: Two R4C-1 stories ?

There are some shots of one or both? of the planes in this movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t78pSdP_yss

Around the 42 to 43 minute mark it appears to show one of the planes being unloaded. The again around the 59 minute mark a plane is shown. One is shown taking off a little later. At the 1:07 mark a plane is shown in a snow storm.

Interesting movie showing the conditions faced.

Last edited by RSwank; 3rd May 2018 at 13:51.
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Old 12th May 2018, 16:21
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Two R4C-1 stories ?

Alex

I have now gained access to my Curtiss files and I can give some more specific dates for you.

BuA 9584 c/n 57: del to USN Air Station Anacostia 6 May 1934; USMC San Diego 30 Aug 1935; no date except 1939 when going to the Antarctic Service.

BuA 9585 c/n 58: del to USMC 16 June 1934; again no date except 1939 when going to Antarctica...

Nice film by the way, looks cold.....
Cheers
Stig
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  #10  
Old 12th May 2018, 17:14
twocee twocee is online now
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Re: Two R4C-1 stories ?

Ah Stig, your limitless files are quarried once again!

The two R4Cs were withdrawn from the Marines (VMJ-2) in August 1939 and sent to the Naval Aircraft Factory for overhaul and installation of an additional fuel tank. They were then transferred to the US Antarctic Survey in October that year (BuNo 9584) and November (BuNo 9585). Both were stricken by the Navy on 31 July 1941.
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