August 07,1944 Abschusss Identified

[kaki3152]

In Theo Boiten's book " Nachtjagd War Diaries Volume Two" , on August7,1944, Lt Erich Jung, 6/NJG-2 claimed a P-38 or a P-61 shot down in the Avranches-Granville area at 0231. The notation is that no P-61 were lost on this night. It now appears that the loss was an USAAF flown " Mickey" DH Mosquito, NS311, flown by Lt. Thompson and Lt. Edgar. Both crewmen were KIA. Mickey missions were H2X photography at night.

[MW Giles]

Jung claimed his P-38/P-61 on the night of 6/7 August at 02:31 hrs in Alencon/Falaise/Domfront area (NJCA 44/4 p 28). NW France

Thompson crashed on the night of 7/8 August at 01:10 hrs near Nordhorn, which is near the Dutch/German border

So apart from which night, what time and where it happened, a perfect match.

Theo lists the Jung claim as probably P-38 J-10 42-68002 of 370 FG; however, Bishop and Hey in Losses of 8th and 9th AF vol 4 list 42-68002 as lost to flak on bomber escort between Domfront and Vire at 20:55 hrs on 07.08.44.

That does not really match either.

The hunt is still on, in my opinion. There were real P-61s over the Cotentin peninsular on the 6/7 August - the 422nd NFS flew 8 sorties and claimed two probables. None of these a/c report being attacked by a night fighter

Martin

[hanshauprich]

Moien,
the OKL Fighter Claims list say P-38, not P-61! OLtn. Erich Jung 6,/NJG 2, P-38 QU-RT 1.800 m 12.21h, Film C. 2025/I Anerk. Nr. 85 12.21h is Daytime and QU looks not very to France!!
There was an Air Raid at Blechhammer Oil Industry and their are two P-38 losses from 15th Airforce (14FG & 82FG) over Austria bzw. Germany.

h.

[FrankieS]

https://www.americanairmuseum.com/ar...ircraft/ns-311


On 7-Aug-44, Mosquito NS311 was on H2X photography (MICKEY) mission to Salzburgen, Germany. Crashed at Wycombe Marsh just outside High Wycombe after returning from Normandy beaches. Pilot and navigator initially listed as Missing in Action (MIA) from that mission. 2 KIA. MACR 7423.

[MW Giles]

NS311 did not exist. It was a code allocated to cancelled production of Swordfish by the Blackburn company.

There were a number of NS5xx to NS8xx Mosquitos

NS511 was on 60 Sqn SAAF,
NS611 did not exist - that code was in a blackout block,
NS711 went to the USAAF and served with the 25th BG - lost 24.03.45
NS811 went to the USAAF but was returned and sold 16.12.46, becoming G-AIRU

MM311 however did exist as a DH Mosquito XVI and was on the 802nd Recon Group (Provisional)

MM311 Delivered Alconbury 22/2/44. 482nd conversion to Mickey H2X, to 8th Special Squadron 13/5/44, Lost 7/8/1944 with 802nd RG(P) with 1Lt W W Thompson pilot and 2Lt K C Edgar (also noted variously as EC and CC Edgar) both killed and buried in Germany after the a/c crashed at Klausheide, E of Nordhorn

In an over simplified way the 8th Recon Group became 802nd RG(P) which, shortly after the crash we are discussing, became 25th BG (Rcn)

There is an account of the loss in the book The 25th Bomb Group (Rcn) in World War II by Norman Malayney

Thompson and Edgar were nowhere near Normandy

Martin

As an aside on the website link you provide, if the sortie was to Salzbergen, how on earth did they manage to crash coming back from Normandy? And then find themselves burried in Germany. If they crashed in England would there have been an MACR?

[MW Giles]

the OKL Fighter Claims list say P-38, not P-61! OLtn. Erich Jung 6,/NJG 2, P-38 QU-RT 1.800 m 12.21h, Film C. 2025/I Anerk. Nr. 85 12.21h is Daytime and QU looks not very to France!!
There was an Air Raid at Blechhammer Oil Industry and their are two P-38 losses from 15th Airforce (14FG & 82FG) over Austria bzw. Germany.

You have to be careful. There are several QU-RT co-ordinates in the world. It depends upon which map you are reading.

II/NJG2 was definitely over France in early August 1944 - see losses of Werknr 327164 and 751123 on 06.08.44

There is evidence it was near Köln later in the month

If it was a P-38 claimed in daylight then:

06.08.44

367FG
42-68154 and 42-104415 in collision with each other Beuzeville 11:45 hrs

07.08.44

367FG

42-68047 landing accident Cretteville 22:30 hrs

370FG
42-68002 lost to flak on escort Domfront-Vire 20:55 hrs
42-67970 landing gear fault, crashed Deux Jumeaux 18:30 hrs

None of these match either

Martin