Me-410 "U5+KG" werk nummer confirmation

[Lucass]

During the 1943 year 16/KG2 lost two Me 410A-1 coded U5+KG with wrk. nr. 410185 and 210238.
All publications and books mention about two losses. First of them U5+KG was lost on the night 13/14.07.1943 with the crew of Fw. Franz Zwissler and Ofw. Leo Raida. Second one U5+KG lost on 7/8.10.1943 with the crew of Fw. G. Slotczyg (Slodozik) and Uffz. Fritz Westrich.

There is a one known photo of U5+KG from 16/KG 2 described in this case as a wrk. nr. 210238 (Fw. Zwissler's crew) but other sources use the same photo and describe it as a wrk. nr. 410185.
https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...Me410part1.jpg

So, is there anyone who could help me to identify a correct werk nummer and combine with the crew and included photo??

Thanks!

[Chris Goss]

I have Zwissler as 238 and Slodczyk 185. Don't forget there would probably have been another U5+KG after the second loss for the period 8 Oct 43 to 6 Feb 44

[AndyMa]

These WNr. don't seem right to me.
410185 would have been produced in 1944 - this should be 10185 I think.
I'm not familiar with 210238 - should this be 10238?

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by AndyMa

These WNr. don't seem right to me.
410185 would have been produced in 1944 - this should be 10185 I think.
I'm not familiar with 210238 - should this be 10238?

I don't know why the Me 210/410 family became so complicated as shown in various sources.

What I say here is based upon the book written by Petrick and Stocker.
It seems there was both a production line with WNr 10xxx and 410xxx

In the case of 410185 Petrick/Stocker list it as WNr 10185. They have nothing against WNr 410185 (a blank)

With regard to 210238 they have no such range at all. Nothing on 10238 either, except a STKZ SI+TM.
That aircraft is found only against the last four, ie 0238 (STKZ SI+ID).
No idea from where the prefix digits 21 come from, but I would be interested to know where they are
verified.

Cheers
Stig

[Lucass]

There is a note in polish publication written by Janusz Ledwoch - "Me 210/410", Wydawnictwo Militaria 1996, page 27 about WNr. 210238 and WNr. 10185 (both with U5+KG code) but the same author in 2001 wrote a new edition (refreshed) of this publication with the same title, where on the 32 page he mentioned about WNr. 410238 and WNr. 410185. I think that this is certainly an editorial error.

[Stig Jarlevik]

....and from which original document are either version verified?

Cheers
Stig

[Lucass]

Both publications are old and do not contain any sources to original documents. Back to the topic..it seems very likely that correct digits in both cases are 10238 and 0238?

[Stig Jarlevik]

Well, that is at least what Petrick/Stocker believe.

I can't say if all those "short numbers" stand alone or not. Since by the time the Me 410 came on the
production line, RLM was in total control and assigned the WNr to the factories and I cannot see the
point in assigning "short numbers" to this specific type. Makes no sense.

Anyone who got an opinion?

Cheers
Stig

[Karoband]

Good Evening,

The original documents of the losses of the "KG"s are found online in the Bundesarchiv in

1. RL 2-III/1191 p. 0126 which gives 238, and

2. RL 2-III.1194 p. 0131 which gives 10185.

For some reason the clerk lists far fewer numbers in the werknummern than other types. A survey of RL 2-III/1190 through 1194 covering the period from 1 July 1943 to 27 October 1943 reveals 67 losses (10%-100%) of Me 410s by V/KG 2. One is two digits (RL 2-III/1193 p. 0168), 36 are three digits, 8 are four digits and 23 are five digits. None indicate either a 210xxx or 410xxx werknummer.

Hopefully there is factory documentation of both series.

Best regards,

Jim

P.S. In RL 2-III/1194 p.0116 III/ZG 1 lost a 420025 and on p. 0151 a 410096.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Jim!

Any thoughts as to why such "short numbers" were used at all?

Cheers
Stig