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Old 7th January 2018, 12:42
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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White spiral on black, or black green, painted spinner

Often, a white spiral can be observed on the black, or black green, painted spinner of various German and Axis allied warplanes. Based on Luftwaffe regulation, this distinctive Axis recognition marking was introduced on warplanes subordinated to Luftflotte 4 fighting on the Eastern Front sometimes in late July 1944.
Can someone point out to the actual date this marking had to be introduced and the document that prescribed it?
Was it valid only to warplanes subordinated to Luftflotte 4?
Thanks, in advance.
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Old 7th January 2018, 14:33
Kari Lumppio Kari Lumppio is offline
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Re: White spiral on black, or black green, painted spinner

Hello!

For what it is worth.

August 2nd, 1944 Finnish Air Force received Bf 109 G-6, WNr. 166118, CR+RN, which became MT-492. A photo shows it with white spiral on spinner. As far as I know MT-492 was the only one with spiral in Finland during wartime.

WNr 166118 may have been intended for LFl 4? I think MT-492 was collected from Luftpark and not from factory, so it may have had other destination intended originally.

MT-492 had radio (FuG 16 Zy) fitted which also points to Luftpark pick-up. Those directly from factory did not have radio, because Luftparks were to equip planes to operational condition? Majority of FinnAF Bf 109 G-6 arrived to Finland without radio!

Was the 1/3 white sector factor painted on spinner? Making any spiral a factory paint scheme modification?

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Old 7th January 2018, 15:14
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Nick Beale Nick Beale is offline
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Re: White spiral on black, or black green, painted spinner

ULTRA has the following message dated 10 February 1944:

CX/MSS/T92/31
From IA on 10/2.
To avoid confusion with enemy a/c, C-in-C GAF has issued the following instructions to all fighter and heavy fighter units.
1) That in principle no changes may be made in the camouflage paint as delivered from the factory (except for smoothing, polishing etc.)
2) In the case of those units operating in defence of the Reich, the stipulated band round the fuselage Ł Bauchbinde Ł will remain as the marking of the individual Geschwader.
3) In principle all Kommodore and Kommandeure of units operating in defence of the Reich to fly with white fins and rudders.
4) All fighter a/c of Luftflotte 3 and Reich are to have a black and white spiral painted on the spinner. Size one and a half spirals turning in the same direction as the spinner. Width ⅕ of the diameter of the spinner.
5) The marking with a series of numbers within the Staffel remains as before.
NOTE: Paras. 1) and 5) of the above were included in similar orders for AOC GAF Finland (MSS/T89/141).

For more on the subject, see here: http://www.ghostbombers.com/markings/bands1.html
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Old 7th January 2018, 16:46
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: White spiral on black, or black green, painted spinner

Thank you, Nick, for the quoted document.
The problem I have with it that it lists only Luftflotte 3 and the Reich (Austria included).
Luftlotte 4 as well as the Balkans - the topic I am currently researching - is not listed.
Martin Pegg noted in his Hs 129 book (Classic) that the white spiral was introduced in the area under Luftflotte 4 command "in late July 1944". Is there any evidence in this regards?
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Old 7th January 2018, 17:06
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Re: White spiral on black, or black green, painted spinner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dénes Bernád View Post
Thank you, Nick, for the quoted document.
The problem I have with it that it lists only Luftflotte 3 and the Reich (Austria included).
Luftlotte 4 as well as the Balkans - the topic I am currently researching - is not listed.
Martin Pegg noted in his Hs 129 book (Classic) that the white spiral was introduced in the area under Luftflotte 4 command "in late July 1944". Is there any evidence in this regards?
I can't answer for Martin but there are several messages to indicate that application of the spiral was ordered at the end of June 1944 (see http://www.ghostbombers.com/markings/inv1.html and the following page) and was in use in the West from mid-July. I don't have anything about the Luftflotte 4 area until the introduction of the yellow "V" (http://www.ghostbombers.com/markings...vmarkings.html) in September.
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Old 7th January 2018, 22:17
gaupe75 gaupe75 is offline
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Re: White spiral on black, or black green, painted spinner

Is this to be intepreted as that all 109s leaving factory after a given date should have the newer regulation with a spiral on the spinner?
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Old 21st January 2018, 15:20
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: White spiral on black, or black green, painted spinner

This photo, sold recently, shows a Bf 109G of 6./JG 11, with white spiral on its black spinner. The date is 20 March 1944!
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File Type: jpg Képkivágás54.JPG (70.9 KB, 21 views)
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