He111 shot down 17 June 1940

[MarkRS]

G.E. Goodman, No 1 Squadron, is credited with shooting down an He111 on 17 June 1940 over France. Can anyone confirm this combat and give details of which unit the He111 was from? What were the code/serial numbers of both aircraft? Where exactly was the dog fight?

Mark

[John Beaman]

possible:

He 111, n.n., 1./KG 26, 17-Jun-40, Luftkampf with enemy fighters., 1 WIA., Lfl.2/Westfeldzug, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #1)-Vol.2; Cornwell, Battle of France, T&N, p.481, zwischen Tou und Nancy, bFUffz. K. Magerkurth

[MarkRS]

Thanks John,
Any idea what their mission was or where the combat took place? And what do all the abbriviations mean?

Mark

[John Beaman]

n.n.,--No name on loss record
1 WIA.,--wounded in action
Lfl.2/Westfeldzug, --2nd air fleet
Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #1)-Vol.2; material loss records
Cornwell, Battle of France, T&N, p.481,-- recent publication by Peter Cornwell and After the Battle. A "must have" if you are interested in the early air war in Europe.
zwischen Tou und Nancy,--between Tou and Nancy

bFUffz. K. Magerkurth--part of crew

Often, in the early part of the war, records are not as detailed as they were later.

[MarkRS]

Thanks again

[MarkRS]

I had a look at the map. Tou can be either Toul which is very close to Nancy and so pinpoints the combat exactly or Tours which is much further away. Either way it is a very long way from where No. 1 Squadron was supposed to be, so I don't think this is the one. Were there any other He111s shot down that day? Or maybe it could have been a Ju88? George Berry took out a Ju88 the same day and was credited with an He111.

Mark.

[John Beaman]

Well, several things affect the accuracy of such records in this time.

• First, the plane may not have come down except miles away from where the combat took place.
• Second, these early Luft. records are notoriously lacking in information.
• Third, did 1 Sq. know exactly where the combat took place? RAF records are also often sketchy.
• Fourth, the He 111 was damaged, not destroyed in the air, so, again, where it came down and is listed in the loss report may be miles from where the combat took place.
• Lastly, the only Ju-88 listed for that day was a damaged, by flak.

[MarkRS]

Makes life difficult, doesn't it? I guess that just because we cannot find a record does not mean it did not happen. George Berry is credited with shooting down the aircraft that sank the Lancastria which was definitely a Ju88, even though he was credited with a He111. George Goodman claimed an He111 which he saw crash land and 3 airmen climbed out. That would tie up with the record you found. Also, if it was between Nantes and Tours instead of Nancy, that would put it in the right area.

Mark

[MarkRS]

Here is the complete list of Luftwaffe losses/damaged 17 June 1940, according to Cornwell. It confirms the He111 was in combat between Nancy and Toul. Has anyone else been credited with damaging or shooting down the He111? The Ju88 has been credited probably to George Berry. The Hs126 was also at Toul, but I doubt you could mistake that for an He111.
Which RAF squadron was supposed to be covering Nancy-Toul?

Mark

[Peter Cornwell]

Mark,

Before we speculate further as to the identity the enemy aircraft concerned, (but as John Beaman has already correctly deduced the 1./KG26 loss that day is by far the most likely candidate), can I ask the source of the GOODMAN claim that you mention ? I do not seem to have any note of this which is why, presumably, I made no such connection in BoFrT&N.