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  #1  
Old 6th January 2010, 21:54
Brian Brian is offline
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B-24 shot down 2 July 1944

Hi guys

I have been persuing an American airman's diary entries. He states that on 2/7/44 his B-24 group (466thBG), returning from a sortie, was trailed by a 'German-crewed B-24' that opened fire on them. It was eventually shot down over France by US escorting fighters.

Any ideas?

Cheers
Brian
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Old 7th January 2010, 17:26
shooshoobaby shooshoobaby is offline
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Re: B-24 shot down 2 July 1944

Brian -
Is this July 2, 44?
Bits and Pieces lists a B - 24 as
returned from Operations - 4 Crewmen WIA
Group not listed.
Mike
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Old 7th January 2010, 17:32
Larry Larry is offline
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Re: B-24 shot down 2 July 1944

I always thought that these stories were myths put out by USAAF crews convinced that the Luftwaffe used such tactics! Having said that it wasn't unknown for Allied aircraft to shoot at each other. Perhaps the crew from the lone B-24 was just trying to get in formation with another Bomber Group for self protection and other B-24s in that Group shot at the stragler, giving others in the formation the impression that it was firing at them!
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Old 7th January 2010, 19:50
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: B-24 shot down 2 July 1944

Hi Mike & Larry
This is an extract from the air gunner's diary entry for 2 July 1944, 704thBS/446thBG

"We later found that a German B-24 (one captured or rebuilt) had taken a position in our formation. He was flying about a quarter mile behind us – we thought he was one of ours or one of another group that was having trouble keeping up with the formation. He sat back and radioed to the ground batteries our direction, air speed, and altitude. That’s all you need to sight flak guns. Our fighter escorts realized something was wrong. When we approached the coast of France on the way home, this plane turned back to France. The fighters headed him off and turned him toward England again. Once more he turned back to France. When the fighters approached him again, he opened fire on them. They, in turn, shot him down. Don’t know bomb results on this mission. "
Cheers
Brian
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Old 8th January 2010, 14:05
Leendert Leendert is offline
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Re: B-24 shot down 2 July 1944

Brian,

Checked some (all?) known captured B-24s (41-23659, 41-28641, 42-52106, 42-73507 (parts used for other B-24s?), 42-78106, 42-78247), but none seems to fit the picture...

Regards,

Leendert
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Old 8th January 2010, 15:51
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Re: B-24 shot down 2 July 1944

I've read stories before about B-17's going into a formation and relaying information but they were heading towards the target (books printed in the 1960's). I've always wondered why the Germans didn't load bombs on a few "rogue" B-17 or B-24's and send them back to the returning base. That would have probably have been worth the loss of one captured aircraft if caught leaving the target.
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Old 8th January 2010, 16:59
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: B-24 shot down 2 July 1944

Thanks guys - most interesting.

Mike - are you suggesting that the B-24 with the four wounded crewmen was the only B-24 casualty on this date? If so, in the light of Leendert's assertion, this would presumably have to have been the victim of the US fighter escort - or not?

Is there any way that we can establish the identity of the bomber/crew?

PS: I have just had a look of USAAF Accidents - the only possibility is B-24J 42-109793 of the 714thBS/448BG flown by Lt Billie C. Clanton - from which the crew baled out following 'engine fire' - but this seems unlikely.

Cheers
Brian
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Old 10th January 2010, 02:05
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USAAF Fighter Claims for 2 July 1944

European Theater of Operation
Coffey Robert L 2nd Lt 365FG ETO 1.0
Kling Ralph F 2nd Lt 388FS ETO 1.0
Siems Grover C Jr 2nd Lt 334FS ETO 1.0

Mediterranean Theater of Operation
Blakeslee, Donald J M Colonel 4FG MTO 1.0
Bryan William L JR 2nd Lt 2FS MTO 2.0
Carnie Robert E 2nd LT 5FS MTO 1.0
Cowan William R 2nd Lt 2FS MTO 1.0
Darrow Jack L 2nd Lt 97FS MTO 1.0
Davis Barrie S 2nd Lt 317 FS MTO 2.0
Emerson Donald R 1st Lt 336FS MTO 0.5
Ford Claude E Maj 97FS MTO 2.0
Franklin Dwaine R 1st Lt 5FS MTO 1.0
Gardner Warner F Maj 95FS MTO 1.0
Griffith Robert C 1st Lt 97FS MTO 2.0
Hedrick William F Capt 334FS MTO 1.0
Higgind Donald H Capt 486FS MTO 1.5
Hivley Howard D Capt 334FS MTO 3.0
Holloway James D 1st Lt 95FS MTO 1.0
Jay Edward F/O 307FS MTO 2.0
Jones Frank C Capt 335FS MTO 1.0
Lampe Richard C 1st Lt 2FS MTO 1.5
Lawler John B Capt 2FS MTO 2.0
McCarthy John G 2nd Lt 5FS MTO 1.0
Riddle Dennis 1st Lt 2FS MTO 0.5
Shipman Ernest 1st Lt 307FS MTO 1.0
Tovrea Philip E Jr 1st Lt 27 FS MTO 1.0
Voll John J 1st Lt 308FS MTO 1.0
Watson Ralph J Maj 2FS MTO 1.0
Zelinski Walter C 2nd Lt 5FS MTO 1.0
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Old 10th January 2010, 16:26
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: B-24 shot down 2 July 1944

Thanks FrankieS

The MTO entries are irrelevant - the incident occurred over N. France.

What were the three ETO claims? However, I doubt if any pilot was credited with shooting down a B-24!

Cheers
Brian
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Old 15th January 2010, 01:11
BC BC is offline
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Re: B-24 shot down 2 July 1944

You are right Brian, but nevertheless it DID happen - and intentionally !

In March 1945, a B-24 of the 458BG which had been abandoned by the crew was found by P-47s from the 56FG circling over Malmedy and after some discussion, was shot down.

You will of course, also be aware of a similar incident over Iwo Jima in June 1945 when a B-29 whose surviving crew had baled out was shot down by a P-61.

Now there's a twist - "intentional" friendly fire !!!

Regards,

BC
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