Captured P-51 "My Lady Margaret"

[kaki3152]

Picture of "My Lady Margaret" in 325FG markings. The code on the fuselage is "A54".

[RSwank]

I was interested in trying to understand what happened on this mission. To recap:
42-103458 (Lady Margaret), Thomas H Todd (POW)
MACR: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/91098920

A second P-51 (44-15174) also crash-landed in the same field, flown by Lt Norval Weers (POW).
MACR: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/91097383

Apparently Weers ran out of gas and actually crash landed first. Todd landed with wheels down (apparently with the intent of trying to fly Weers out.)
Todd and Weers had gone into a muddy field at the south end of the Neusiedler-See, just over the border into Hungary at 1700 (German Time). The location ( Mexiiko-Puszta) is west of the city of Gyor (Raab). Both men were captured fairly quickly.

The other two P-51s lost on mission were:
42-103911 Brownell, Donald L (POW). The MACR is here:
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/91097392
Brownell’s MACR contains no information on when/where he was captured.

42-103455 Campbell, George F (KIA), MACR:
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/91097400
Campbell apparently crashed in the vicinity of Vienna Austria. He was KIA. He is buried in the Ardennes American Cemetery.

The loss of the F-5 (P-38) (Serial Number 44-24710) is MACR 10127. The pilot was Don Emil Walters, O-758118. Note the MACR was not indexed by plane serial number and does not seem to be in the National Archives file. It can be found on fold3 here:
https://www.fold3.com/image/28711389
The F-5 crashed (shot down?) at 16:30 (German Time) at Amstetten (Austria).

Newspaper clippings on Walters:
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/7898...i-news-record/
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/7898...sas-city-star/

The planned 5 hour mission from San Serveo was to fly almost due North (358 degrees) to Prague then return. Walters took off at 11:05. The P-51s were to pick up Walters at 11:09 above San Severo at 1,000 feet and then they all would fly the mission together to Prague and back.
At 12:20 another F-5 pilot, ( 1st Lt Sherman F Dreyer on another F-5 mission) hears Walters trying to contact his escort. At 12:20 Walters and the P-51 escort would have been flying for an hour and 11 minutes. They should have been about 325 miles north of San Serveo. That should have put them in the middle of present- day Slovenia (near Ljubljana) if they were on course.

All the above information from the MACRs does not explain what happened on the mission. Then I found that Brownell wrote up a story called "The Last Mission" which was “based” on his experiences. It was published in the December, 1957 issue of Flying Magazine. Given what we know, it seems to fill in many details.

Brownell's story of the mission starts on page 41 and then continues on pages 68, 70, and 72:

https://books.google.com/books?id=7E...ell%22&f=false

[Karoband]

RSwank, thank you for your additional information. The 1957 article was a great find. It seems the P-51 pilots were totally dependent on the navigation by Walters. I have found very little on the web about Walters and his plane. Joe Baugher's entry is:

"24710 (F-5E-4-LO, 5th PRG) captured by Luftwaffe December 9, 1944. MACR 10127".

Tony Jones' site has absolutely no day-light claims by the Luftwaffe over the Reich on this day.

best regards,

Jim

[Stig Jarlevik]

Jim

What is Tony Jones site?`

Cheers
Stig

[Karoband]

Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik

Jim

What is Tony Jones site?`

Cheers
Stig

Sorry, Stig. A bad case of brain fog. He is, of course, Tony Wood.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=31011

Thanks,

Jim

[Alex Smart]

There would be no claims for these losses, the weather and fuel seemed to be the causes.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Ahhh, no worries Jim

Thanks for getting back on this one.

Cheers
Stig

[RSwank]

According to this: https://github.com/acdh-oeaw/DAACDA/.../crew_1944.csv

Brownell was captured near Kraubath (Kraubath an der Mur) which is near Leoben, Austria.

[Stig Jarlevik]

A big hand to Jim, Carlos, Rolland and everyone else who made this a very interesting thread indeed.

I am a bit puzzled about this mission, as it seems most of us are.
Was the planning and execution of missions this lousy within the USAAF at the time or was this such a low key mission that nobody really cared?

Five out of five aircraft lost basically because of, as I read it, very bad planning and without nobody really in charge of anything. All for nothing!
At this stage of the war I doubt anyone "higher up" believed in do-or-die missions. Did the USAAF really operate on a "never abort a mission" principle?
At some point much earlier and long before getting lost someone should have realized this was a no-go job and made a decision for everyone to abort.

I understand it is easy to be "old and wise" with hindsight, but still.....

Cheers
Stig

[kaki3152]

Stig,

I think it wasn't the poor planning so much as the bad weather that caused the loss of all five planes. I talked to Norval Weers many years ago and he said they had not been briefed on how bad was the weather. In retrospect, the mission should have never been flown.

Carlos