18/04/44:Bostons' Unity

[focusfocus]

18/04/44

3 Bostons "WOULD" have been shot down (2 forced landings) by Bf.110 during the attack of the Romanian Freighter "Alba Julia":source Victor Koulikov.

1)If the story is true,what is the unity of the Bf.110?:I am thinking of II/ZG1,but no known claims that day(rather DB-3 on 19/04/44).
2)To which unit these Bostons depended?

Thank's in advance
Michel

[Laurent Rizzotti]

According to this link http://www.worldwar2.ro/operatii/?article=776, both A-20 lost during an attack on Alba Iula were shot down by Flak. But this link is probably not reliable for identifying the Soviet units, just interesting to have the Axis point of view.

According to this other http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=2435, they were from 13 GDBAP (guard long-range air regiment).

As for Bf 110 being seen in the area, Bf 110 and Ju 88s of NJG 200 were engaged in this time period in patrols in the area (with one loss on the 17th and two on the 23rd) so may be the ones reported by Soviet crews.

Here is a Russian view of these operations: http://testlib.meta.ua/book/209255/read/

For 18 April, the above link give three losses:
_ two A-20 of 13 GDBAP in one convoy attack countered by Flak and "3 Bf 110s". One A-20 reported downed by AA fire (crew KIA), the other just reported hit and ditched, crew in dinghy. Unclear if the second was shot down by AA or German planes, but probably the former.
_ one PE-2 of 40 BAP in a following attack. This Pe-2 made a emergency landing in Karaja Bay area... could be on water or on land.

By the way VVS-ChF claimed one Bv 138 in the morning (probably one of 3. / SAGr. 125, see http://www.luftwaffe-zur-see.de/Seel...n/Jahr1944.htm) and one Bf 109 in the afternoon

[focusfocus]

Thank's Laurent
That's precision,in particular Links!
Michel

[researcher111]

In my view 13 GvMRAP of the Black Sea Fleet may have been in that perimeter though on recon duty .Possibly the A-20's in question may have involved 36 MTAP which operated out of Gelendjik and were torpedo equipped . If there were such losses they would be visible at OBD .Since January 1944 36 MTAP carried maritime duties
against German and Romanian ships .Mr Morozov can be contacted on this subject because he in possession of Opersvodky of both above mentioned Avia Groups

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by researcher111

Mr Morozov can be contacted on this subject because he in possession of Opersvodky of both above mentioned Avia Groups

In my post above, the second link is to a forum where Mr Morozov himself identified the Bostons as 13 GDBAP.

But I agree that he is the best source I know regarding Soviet naval air operations (especially as he has access to many primary sources and not quotes Soviet era books).

[researcher111]

I know Miroslaw well , when I will have the time I will get in touch with him. As into 13GvDBAP categorically thats an error because this group was not operating in
1944 overthere at all and was not a Naval Air unit . Probably he meant 13 GvMRAP VMF which before was known under 19 MRAP. The Naval Air Group was operating
in the Black Sea - some called the unit 13th Gvardeiskoy Mino Torpedney Konstanzskoy Red Banner Avia Polk and other called the unit 13th Gvardeiskoy Morskoy Razvedavadelney Konstanzskoy Red Banner Avia Polk and other Black Sea 13th KGAP ...this as part of the org.mess the Soviets had during WWII . Fact is that 19 MRAP was a Recon Avia Group which already flew to Constanza in 1941 with MBR-2 Flying Boats and so was the 13th GvMRAP in 1944 ...although they
also carried ordnance and torpedos in addition to aerial cameras.

Event 18.4.1944

While Rom convoy ships evacuating German and Romanian troops from Sevastopol on April 17,1944, the 13 GvMRAP probably based at Sokologornoe or Saki along
with elements of 5 GMTAP Saki and 36 MTAP Gelendjik were ordered to attack the evac convoy headed for Constanza from 12:20 to 13:30 hrs . The
carefully selected crews attacked the convoy with bombs and aerial MG's . It is not clear which group fired torpedos though on
their 3 sorties they caused slight to severe damages mainly to Alba Iulia while killing at least 400 Soviet POW's taken by Germans as hostages
to prevent being targeted by Soviets . The two A-20G were lost to AA fire in due course due inability to complete their mission as planned a IL-4 was
seriously hit by AA fire. Soviet Stavka knew about the Soviet POW's and the risks .

No German fighters were involved , however earlier on a flying boat BV-138 of 3.SAGr125 landed near the convoy.

1 A-20G of pilot Kapitan Menshutin Sergey Arkadievitsch 13GvMRAP VMF 2nd SQD ,VMF ,lost at sea while attacking Alba Iulia ( 3 crew missing )
1 A-20G of pilot Major Projavtschenko Pavel Mihalovitch 13 GvMRAP 2nd SQD , VMF lost at sea while attacking Alba Iulia ( 3 crew missing )
(4 officers of the A-20 crews were highly decorated and were Constanza and Odessa campaigns 1941 veterans )

1 IL-4 of pilot St Lt Alifimov probably 5 MTAP crashed near Evpatoria , crew rescued . However on night of 21/22 Aug 1944 Capt.Alifimov and crew
would run out of luck and would go MIA over Constanza .

The crews of 8 x A-20 and 4 IL-4 attacked Alba Iulia , Danubyus ,Marasti and Ghiculescu with 32 FAB-100 bombs at 12:20 , 12:37 and 13;30 hrs
2 x A-20 made recon photos.It is not clear if the Romanian escort ships or the gunners of Alba Iulia shot down the two Soviet A-20's

Alex K