Friendly fire WWII

[dahiot daniel]

Originally Posted by dahiot daniel

Brian,

Here are three examples known to me.
05/08/1944. Lysander V9748. Shot taken by mistake for a Henschel 126.

http://www.absa39-45.asso.fr/5%20aou...k_anglais.html

08/08/1944. Albemarle P1501. Shot dead in error by 604 Sqn (Mosquito). mistaken for a Do 217.
http://www.absa39-45.asso.fr/9%20aout%2044/aout44.html

P-47 D-5 RE, serial 42-8491. Strafed the HQ of General Patton in Mayenne. It was shot for an anti-aircraft battery of 20 mm. Its pilot 1st Lt. Louis Alphonse G (KIA).


http://www.absa39-45.asso.fr/P47/p47.html

Link bad : new : http://www.absa39-45.asso.fr/9%20aout%2044/aout44.html

[Brian]

Thanks once again Dahiot

Cheers
Brian

[revell222]

No doubt you have got Lt Col GR Johnson's P-38 with its famous RAAF Boomerang shoot down and kill marking but what about Cundles' "Bad Angel" with its scoreboard with nine German, Italian, Japanese and one American symbol. Contact me at revell2000 (at) hotmail.com for picture sources if you haven't got them.

[Brian]

Many thanks Treble 2

Yes, I am aware of this incident and have seen a relevant photo but would appreciate references you imply.

Cheers
Brian

[revell222]

Correction - name = Curdes. Actually two incidents. Give me your email or reply to mine and I will send you scans of pics etc.

[Brian]

Hi Treble 2,

Thanks - my e-mail address is

briancullauthor@fsmail.net

I look forward to seeing the scans.

Cheers
Brian

[revell222]

Email sent with pictures.

It would be interesting if your book tried to make some estimates of aircraft lost from different causes.
1. I imagine non-operational losses would be the largest category for every airforce. Training, foolish aerobatics, mechanical failure etc.
2. Everyone knows about the enormous scores of the top Luftwaffe aces (even if they are discounted 50% they still make Allied ones look pale) but reason dictates that far more Luftwaffe aircraft must have been shot down than Allied ones.
3, Friendly fire must be a significant factor.
A difficult statistical challenge requiring much guesswork and assumptions - we will be interested to see the results though!

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hi Brian,

Found another example of air-to-ground friendly fire: Verviers, Belgium, was on 11 October 1944 bombed by P-38s, killing 16 Belgian civilians and 4 GI's.

Source:
http://books.google.fr/books?id=f3RP...&lr=#PPA173,M1

Edited:

And another some days before on the other side of the world:

On 7 October 1944, two Indian M.L. (1118 and 1119) were sunk by friendly aircraft in "Indian waters" (or off Burma?) and 9 men were killed. On the same day several crew of other ML were also lost, maybe in the same attack

Source:
http://www.hmsmedusa.org.uk/HDML_Roll_of_honour.html
http://www.hmsmedusa.org.uk/HDML_Story_1944.html
http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1944-10OCT.htm

[Laurent Rizzotti]

The link below (in French) is the copy of an article of the French "Revue Historique des Armées", the official history magazine of the French Army, written in 1985 and describing the French bomber attack against Sedan bridges on 14 May 1940.

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/xavier.d...er/revhist.htm

In the conclusion, the far more massive commitment and losses of the RAF Blenheim and Battles is evocated, but with comments I have not seen before:

"Quant au bombardement anglais, le récit repris partout de l’écrivain quasi officiel Peter Ellis est impressionnant : 73 Battle et 36 Blenheim seraient allés bombarder les ponts de Sedan et 45 auraient été abattus. Mais les comptes rendus britanniques que l’on trouve au SHAA à Vincennes font apparaître une grande incohérence de ce côté : confusion de lieu, bombardement de troupes françaises et de ponts en territoire ami, et méconnaissance là aussi du seul objectif valable ce jour-là : le pont de bateaux de Gaulier. C’est un autre point d’histoire à éclaircir."

My translation:

"Concerning the English bombers, the story repeated everywhere of the the quasi-official writer Peter Ellis is impressive: 73 Battle and 36 Blenheim were sent to bomb Sedan bridges and 45 were shot down. But the British reports that one can find at the SHAA at Vincennes shot great incoherency on RAF part: confusion of place, bombing of French troops and bridges in friendly territory, and ignorance of the only worthwhile goal that day the boatbridge of Gaulier. This is another historical point to be clarified."

OK, it's 25 years old but I wonder if there is something true there.

[Brian]

Hi Laurent

Many thanks and welcome back, your contibutions are most useful.

Cheers
Brian