Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow

[ISLANDER]

Hi All,

It`s been a long time since I posted on this forum but I am glad to see from the members list that I am still one of the crew so to speak,reason being really that my research covered mainly allied aircraft and few Luftwaffe, and my very sparse knowledge of the latter would not be much help to people on this forum,so I hope you will all bear with me.

Still continuing research into losses on and around the Scottish Islands, I have recently been involved with a new group on Orkney called `Aviation Research Group of Orkney & Shetland, or ARGOS for short, the group is run by Kevin Heath a diver on Orkney who after years of diving shipwrecks has now turned his interest to aircraft. At present we are trying to ID all the aircraft that came down on and around Scapa Flow and I see from my sparse records, mainly based on the appendix in `Sky Over Scapa` by Gregor Lamb, that several Luftwaffe aircraft came down in Scapa Flow, or Did they????

Here is a short list of aircraft that are listed as in Scapa Flow, Can any of the Luftwaffe researchers out there confirm/disprove:

1/ Ju-88 in sea off Island of Hoy, 20/9/39.

2/ Ju-88 in sea between Hoy & Stroma, shot down by shore AA
during bombing attack on HMS Iron Duke. 17/10/39. Another
Ju-88 is confirmed as crashing at Pegal Burn,Hoy on this date
With pilot Ober/Lt Flaemig, but the one in the sea eludes me.

3/ Ju-88 4D+EK ? In sea Scapa Flow? 10/12/39.

4/ Dornier Do-17 Crashed in to sea off Copinsay Island, Orkney.
4/1/40.

5/ Do.8G? From 1/KO/FLGR 406? Shot down by Skuas of 801 Sq
East of Orkney 15/5/40.

6/ Luftwaffe aircraft u/k poss Ju-88? Crashed in Scapa Flow? 16/3/40.


Any details on any of the above would be most welcome and gratefully appreciated.

Regards.
Dave.

aka: highgroundsman - RAF Commands forum.

[Peter Cornwell]

Dave,

I can only offer you the following and have nothing whatsoever on your other queries. Are you sure of those dates ?

October 17, 1939: 2./KG30 Junkers Ju88A-1. Suffered direct hit by AA fire during attack on British Fleet in Scapa Flow and exploded in Pegal Burn on the island of Hoy in the Orkney Islands 11.15 a.m. (Ff) Oberlt Walter Flämig, (Beo) Gefr Hans Attenberger, and (Bs) Uffz Rudi Faust killed. (Bf) Uffz Fritz Ambrosius baled out and captured badly wounded and burned. Aircraft 4D+EK 100% write-off.
Remains of this aircraft, the first to crash on mainland Great Britain, and three of its crew were scattered across an area of a quarter mile. They are buried at Lyness as Unknown Airmen.

March 16, 1940: 3./KG30 Junkers Ju88A-1. Lost bearings during return flight following attack on Scapa Flow and, low on petrol, belly-landed on Magelundegård Farm near Købelev, north of Nakskov on the Danish island of Sjælland, 11.30 p.m. (Ff) Uffz Siegfried-Werner Mattner, (Beo) Obergefr Hans-Erich Voß, (Bf) Uffz Erich Klose, and (Bs) Obergefr Fritz-Wilhelm Gottlebe arrested at Birkemosegaard Farm near Vindeby on March 18 and held at Hald, near Viborg, until the German invasion on April 9. Aircraft 4D+AL fired by crew 100% write-off.

[ISLANDER]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your help, we were in touch a few years ago regarding the Ju-88 at Pegal Burn & the one at Flotterston,Sandwick, which was shot down by Lt T.R.V.Parke in a Martlet on Christmas day 1940.

To be honest Peter, dates are as they appeared in `Sky Over Scapa` but are vague, so this is also a process of elimination as well,to squash all the rumours of suspected ditchings etc.

Your mention of the one on 16/3/1940 has at least put this to rest, we know now that this aircraft is not in Orkney, so thanks for that.

Incidentally I have visited the Pegal Burn aircraft twice and there are still a few small pieces to be found, though mainly alloy skinning.

Regards.
Dave.

[edNorth]

Hello Islander,

These below are Ju 88 only (I leave other types for others.)

1. No Ju 88 known missing in September 39.
2. No other Ju 88 known missing 17.10.39 (but two downed day before and both are fairly well documented, Storps 4D+DK was recovered afterwards but I have yet to find the actual report.)
3. No Ju 88 known missing that date.
6. see Peters post.

I recommend you find and read carefully the book by Shores & co-authors: ´Fledling Eagles´ as all this period is well covered in there. Most or all of these questions are answered there.

Best regards
ed

[ISLANDER]

Thanks Ed,

Most helpful, I was a little suspicious of the Ju-88 quoted as bein 20 September 39, again this eliminates yet another spoof of Scapa Flow. I`ll try and find a copy of that book you mentioned.

Regards.
Dave.

[jim norton]

hi,
if you want information on kg26 you can also take a look into the new book "die dunklen jahre" by alexander steenbeck (see www.diedunklenjahre.de). there are a lot of photos and combat-reports of I./ and II./kg26 on their way to scottland and norway through the north sea in 1939/40.
all the best
jim

[Kevin Heath]

Hi All, was pointed to this Forum by Dave (Islander) and we are working together on these Scapa losses and just want to use this first post to thank those on this thread for the help in trying to sort out these Orkney aircraft mysteries ! Thank you

Kevin

[Joe Potter]

Another Scapa Flow mystery is the two "Ein Deutscher Soldat" graves in Lyness RN Cemetery, my question is do they contain the remains of two or three members of the Flämig crew?
Regards
Joe

[Kevin Heath]

Hi Joe, one of the crew is named on the headstone and 2 are unknown, one was a POW so I guess thats the entire crew accounted for ? Dave has looked into this crash a fair bit and may well have photos of the headstones?

Kevin

[Joe Potter]

Hi Kevin,
As far as I know only one German airman has a named grave at Lyness, he was Ofw Herbert Kolberg 1/KG26, he is buried next to the two unknowns, so out of Oblt Walter Flämig, Uffz Hans Attenburger and Obergefr Rudi Faust, who has suddenly gained a named grave? this would be news to the CWGC.
Regards
Joe.