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  #1  
Old 9th August 2017, 13:53
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Snautzer Snautzer is offline
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eBay: He111 5J+KM crashphoto and Logbook enty

Not often a photo of the crashed plane and a logbook entry. But my question: was 5J+KM written off repaired after this?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-WK-Luftwaff...g/132288706775
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Old 9th August 2017, 16:16
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: eBay: He111 5J+KM crashphoto and Logbook enty

Gen.Qu. loss report from January 10, 1942 No. 35:
7.1. II./KG 4 Feindflug Seschtschinskaja Bauchlandung infolge Flakbeschuß
He 111 H-6 4611 40%
Flugzeugführer Lt Joachim Hüser verletzt.

Correction from February 24, 1942 l):
Lt Hüser seinen Verletzungen erlegen. Streiche: 1 Verletzten. Setze: 1 Toten.

Regards
Leo
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Old 9th August 2017, 17:06
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
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Re: eBay: He111 5J+KM crashphoto and Logbook enty

Not sure about this. The NVM gives code 5J+GM, not 5J+KM. It also reports Lt Hüser as a wounded pilot, who died on 22 Jan, 1942. The logbook has Fw Finsel as a pilot and nothing about anti-aircraft gun hit, only single-engine flight. Also the photo shows a very nice and conventional belly landing, where the damage percentage might be under 10 % and therefore not officially reported.

Concerning possible repair of this aircraft, I would say yes, it was repaired. At this stage of war its condition would not have been sufficiently bad for scrapping.

Matti
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Old 9th August 2017, 19:42
RT RT is offline
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Re: eBay: He111 5J+KM crashphoto and Logbook enty

ON january !!! depends where plane hs been stored , Matti,

...

Rémi
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Old 11th August 2017, 14:43
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: eBay: He111 5J+KM crashphoto and Logbook enty

It is possible but not sure that the photo of the belly landed He 111 5J+KM matches to the 5J+KM in the logbook of an unknown holder.
But the logbook in connection with the Verlustmeldung oft the Gen.Qu. from January 10, 1942 proves that the He 111 H-6 4611 with Flugzeugführer Fw Finsel at the controls and Flugzeugführer Lt Hüser on board belly landed in Seschtschinskaja caused by anti-aircraft artillery during an operational flight. The damage was 40%.

The German definition of a 40% damage was „Beschädigung, bei der Triebwerke oder Systeme (z. B. Hydraulik) ersetzt werden mußten, konnte vielfach noch bei der Truppe durchgeführt werden“.

Besides these documents prove, that the code 5J+GM in the „Namentliche Verlustmeldung“ is wrong. Or the entry in the logbook is incorrect.

Regards
Leo
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Old 11th August 2017, 21:31
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: eBay: He111 5J+KM crashphoto and Logbook enty

I must agree with Matti and say I am suspicious regarding the connection between the photo of 5J+KM and WNr 4611.
Remember it is the seller who has made the connection.

The facts are that WNr 4611 coded 5J+GM made a crash landing 7.1.1942
As far as we can judge another aircraft coded 5J+KM obviously also made a force landing that same day. Nothing unusual to have two aircraft down the same day for a KG Staffel.

That Lt Hüser had flown an aircraft coded 5J+KM previously does not mean he was onboard on 5J+KM this day. Since both Hüser and Finsel were pilots it feels unlikely there should be two pilots onboard one aircraft on 7/1 with also points towards Hüser and Finsel being onboard two different aircraft.

We can also see that the unknown crewmember whose Flugbuch we are looking at flew with various different 'Führers' in a number of different He 111s, so it seems to have been rather common for him during this time as well.

Sorry but I need much more proof that what we are looking at is WNr 4611.

Cheers
Stig
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Old 12th August 2017, 12:30
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: eBay: He111 5J+KM crashphoto and Logbook enty

Hello Stig,

I have taken note of your estimation.

For your information: the II./KG 4 had lost two He 111 on January 7, 1942.

He 111 H-6 WNr. 4611 Seschtschinskaja Bauchlandung infolge Flakbeschuss 40%, Lt Hüser verletzt.

He 111 H-6 WNr. 4639 Budwinez Notlandung infolge Flakbeschuss 100%,
Besatzung unverletzt.

Regards
Leo
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Old 12th August 2017, 13:01
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: eBay: He111 5J+KM crashphoto and Logbook enty

Thanks for the update Leo

Cheers
Stig
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