|
Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union. |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
Hi,
here is the original picture from "Ginger Lacey Fighter Pilot" by Bickers, also appears in Watkins book on 501 "Fear Nothing" clearly this man is nearer 30 than 20. The Flight Seargent stripes and crown are clearly visible. As Wynn gives a detailed account of the other Payne's 1939/40 activities I personally feel sure these are 2 different men. Cheers, Bruce Lander |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
Thanks Bruce
Since you are still one up on me (I don't have your issue of Men of the Battle of Britain by Wynne) I have nothing to compare with. Is it possible to get a scan of the "younger" Payne as well? Also the distance photo you have of "old" Payne is this a) The same photo published everywhere, including Listeman's work? b) 100% he is correctly identified? If they are two individuals, it IS rather strange that "old Payne" has no service number and manage to disappear completely while "young Payne" is very slowly passing through to become a fighter pilot. If this had been from early 1938 to mid 1939 training period I would have understood, but the political situation went from bad to worse during this time, and at least I thought RAF were getting into gear from mid 1939 or so with their training schedule. Cheers Stig |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
Hi guys
Yes, I tend to go along with this conclusion. It's surprising, though, that Payne was not decorated for his 4/6 victories. Cheers Brian |
#14
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
Hi Stig & Brian,
here is the photo from the 2nd edition of Wynn's book. Also in 1939/40 the rank of F/Sgt would have been a rank for an older NCO rather than Sgt. Cheers Bruce Lander |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
Thanks Bruce
Have to admit there is not much resemblance between the two individuals.... So if they were not the same, what on earth happened to our "old" Payne from France? Somehow it now begins to look like he never came back and that this for some reason went unrecorded.... I simply have to admit I am not very happy without knowing what happened to Jammy. Obviously Shores is just as puzzled and finds him just as mysterious... (see his latest comments in Aces High Vol 2 from 1999) Cheers Stig |
#16
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
Hi Stig,
Mason in "Battle Over Britain" lists Jammy Payne as still on 501sqd as of 01 July 1940 !!! The younger Payne was born in June 1920 in Croyden ! (see Free BMD site) Cheers Bruce Lander |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
Hi guys
I believe the pilot in the group photo has been misidentified! Therefore only the one Alec Payne! Cheers Brian |
#18
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
Hi Brian, Stig,
I suppose that it really doesn't matter too much if the pic in France of 501 pilots mis-identifies Payne the fact remains that there was a "Jammy" Payne in France with 501 who got several victories but he was NOT Alec D Payne of 610/74. - So who was he? were his initials A.D. even? Does the 501 ORB give any clues? The mystery remains !!! Cheers Bruce Lander |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
Not of terribly much use, but has anyone gone back over pictures of 501 Sqn personnel at the time this photo was taken with the "older Payne" to see whether it is a misidentification? It might be possible therefore to see that the older Payne was in fact another member of the squadron.
Cheers, Tim |
#20
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940
Hi,
From "Britain at War" March 2011 some more info (see attached) on the younger A.D. Payne. Cheers Bruce Lander |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
British Second-Line Aircraft lost in France Sept. 1939 - June 1940. | Martin Gleeson | Allied and Soviet Air Forces | 23 | 23rd March 2020 21:36 |
RAF losses 5./6. March 1945 | JanZ | Allied and Soviet Air Forces | 13 | 25th February 2012 12:40 |
Any dispute about interpreting the BofB? | tcolvin | Allied and Soviet Air Forces | 57 | 17th October 2010 21:31 |
Pilots' Forenames | Steve Brew | Allied and Soviet Air Forces | 0 | 14th June 2008 11:26 |
Losses of B-17's in RCM role | paul peters | Allied and Soviet Air Forces | 4 | 15th February 2006 20:57 |