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Post-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation Please use this forum to discuss Military and Naval Aviation after the Second World War.

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  #1  
Old 1st November 2020, 00:27
Ferreira Ferreira is offline
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SM Gendrot, Flottille 1F, Arromanches, April 1952

Hi!

Someone know the complete name of SM Gendrot, who served in Flottille 1F, in April 1952 and flow the Hellcat 1F-7 in aircraft carrier Arromanches (R95)?

Does anyone have details of Gendrot's career? Number of missions in Indochina, etc.?

Best regards,
Franklin
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  #2  
Old 2nd November 2020, 10:52
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: SM Gendrot, Flottille 1F, Arromanches, April 1952

Hi Franklin

Not of any real interest to me, but I checked with a French friend of mine who is really great when it comes to all things Aeronautique Navale.

His answer below

Yves Gendrot apparently joined the Navy in 1947, and was a qualified shipboard fighter pilot, petty officer, at the time of Indochina (His rank was “Second-Maître”) and he was later promoted to officer status.

in 1962 (“Officier des Equipages”, meaning officers who are not former trainees from the Naval Academy, i.e. a commissioned officer who began his career as an enlisted sailor then became a petty officer prior to full officer commissioning)

I can also add that he ended at the top of his career as an OCE, Officier en Chef des Equipages, equivalent to the rank of commander, with five stripes, 2 golden, 3 silver.

Missions were not numbered in the French military system, rather hours flown on “war missions”, and underlined as such in the pilot’s log book.

So there is no answer to the second part of your query


Cheers
Stig
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Old 2nd November 2020, 17:28
Ferreira Ferreira is offline
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Re: SM Gendrot, Flottille 1F, Arromanches, April 1952

Stig

Thank you very much for the information about SM Gendrot.

Could you see with your friend if he can help me with three more questions?

Aircraft carriers in Indochina were subordinate to the "Groupe porte-avions d'Extrême-Orient" and the G.P.A.E.O. was subordinate to which unit?

Were air flotillas on aircraft carriers (such as 1F) are subordinate to any air group such as the US Navy?

And do French ships have something similar to the USS or HMS before their name?

If you prefer, we can talk in pvt or email and you point me in the direction to get this information.


Thanks a lot again!
Franklin
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  #4  
Old 3rd November 2020, 13:43
AndyMa AndyMa is offline
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Re: SM Gendrot, Flottille 1F, Arromanches, April 1952

I'm sure that French warships do not have any prefix before their names.
You often seem them written as (eg) FS Foch, where FS is French Ship, but this is obviously a convention used by English speakers.

Last edited by AndyMa; 4th November 2020 at 13:33.
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Old 3rd November 2020, 14:47
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: SM Gendrot, Flottille 1F, Arromanches, April 1952

I agree Andy

Never seen anything in front of them.
I thus suggest (if someone wants to do so) they put VdP in front.
What's that? (I hear you think...)

Well, certainly home made, but pretty decent, me think, Vaisseau de President...

Still no response to the other questions, but I checked the Ardhan Vol 22 and there is no listing of any Carrier Air Groups (as in the US Navy) or even G.P.A.E.O. which I suppose should correspond to a Carrier Division in the US Navy.

With my lousy French however, I hope my friend will respond as soon as he can. He is a busy man!

Cheers
Stig
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Old 5th November 2020, 13:48
Ferreira Ferreira is offline
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Re: SM Gendrot, Flottille 1F, Arromanches, April 1952

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik View Post

I thus suggest (if someone wants to do so) they put VdP in front.
What's that? (I hear you think...)

Well, certainly home made, but pretty decent, me think, Vaisseau de President...




Thank you for your help, Stig.
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  #7  
Old 5th November 2020, 14:21
jschreiber jschreiber is offline
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Re: SM Gendrot, Flottille 1F, Arromanches, April 1952

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik View Post
I agree Andy

Well, certainly home made, but pretty decent, me think, Vaisseau de President...
Hello

Not a bad guess ! During about 30 years, under the reign of Louix XIV, in the 17th century, ships of the line were sometimes prefixed by "Vaisseau du Roi". But nothing for the smaller ones (frigates, bricks...) and the usage disappeared.

Regards
Jean Schreiber
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Old 8th November 2020, 01:16
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: SM Gendrot, Flottille 1F, Arromanches, April 1952

Hallo again Franklin

Sorry it took so long, but my friend has some serious personal issues to attend to. Here is his answer in full

No, aircraft carriers were not subordinate to GPAEO, and GPAEO itself was not subordinate to any unit, being only a major command of naval aviation. It was just a convenient name, first mentioned in 1948, as Groupe des porte-avions et de l’Aviation Embarquée, with the single Arromanches (former HMS Colossus) arriving in Indochina in November of that same year (but the destroyer escort was part of the GPAE). Admiral Barjot had been promoted to this charge on 22 October 1948. I would suggest that it was rather something modelled on the Task Forces they had created during WW II in the U.S. Navy. The explanation is quite simple : the aircraft-carrier is a ship, so is strictly French Navy, whereas the squadrons with aircraft are Naval Aviation. Naval Aviation, whether land-based or shipboard, was headed (1952-1997) by the Service central de l’Aéronautique navale (being simply Aéronautique navale, for the period 1943-1952). And shipboard aviation was under a Rear-admiral head of Groupe des porte-avions et aviation embarquée. Therefore, while on ops, it was convenient to put into a single organization both the ship and the shipboard squadrons. But in 1955, the CO of La Fayette, Naval Captain Ponchardier was both the skipper of the carrier AND head of GPAEO. Convenience always prevailed.

No, the notion of air group as with the U.S. Navy never existed as such in the French Navy. For instance, in May 1954, when the two aircraft carriers were switched off Indochina, one returning to France, the full aviation complement of Bois-Belleau simply moved from one deck to the other (La Fayette).

And no, there is no “prefix” for french naval ships unlike the traditional USS or HMS. I think but I am not sure, there was a subtle difference for rare coexistence of similar names, a Normandie belonging to the merchant navy being feminine, a Normandie being a naval unit being masculine


Cheers
Stig
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  #9  
Old 12th November 2020, 06:51
Ferreira Ferreira is offline
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Re: SM Gendrot, Flottille 1F, Arromanches, April 1952

Hi Stig,

Thanks again for your help. Thank your colleague for helping me, please.

It is very difficult to discover detailed information about the orders of battle of the Armée de l'Air and the Aéronavale in Indochina in English.


Cheers,
Franklin
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  #10  
Old 13th November 2020, 15:37
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: SM Gendrot, Flottille 1F, Arromanches, April 1952

Thanks

To be honest, it is quite difficult to find anything in English regarding French aviation except general books.

There are a few of course, but certainly nothing with regard to Indochina, or at least I have never found anything.

Cheers
Stig
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