Crew of Ju 52 WNr 5460, 29 September 1942

[Merlin]

The Ju 52 WNr. 5460 was lost by I./KGzbV 172 near Tunis on 30.04.43.

I hope this clarifies the above question concerning the WNr.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Brian

Seems we just have one accident on this date, but which WNr is correct?
Anyone?

Cheers
Stig

PS: Thanks Merlin. When I clicked on the answer from Brian your answer did not show up. Very odd!!

[Norbert Schuchbauer]

Here is the info from the GQM:

29-09-42 10./Ln.Rgt. 40 F Near Marsa Matruk Forced landing, fighter fire, aircraft burnt out Ju 52/3m WNr. 5480 100% Uffz. Moran Rudolf Bs KIA

Regards,
Norbert

[bill norman]

My article, 'Desert Encounter' (FlyPast, August 2012) dealt with the loss of Ju52 wnr.5480 (not wnr.5460) at the hands of three Spitfires near Mersa Matruh on 29 September 1942. Wnr. 5480 was obtained from GQM, BA Freiburg. Prior to writing the article, I had extensive correspondence with Horst Willborn (highest ranking officer on the Ju52 that day), Ray Sherk (last surviving of the three Spitfire pilots), and Rudolf Moran (nephew of Uffz Rudolf Moran (BS), who died as a result of the encounter). The Ju52 pilot was Obfw. Kulpe. The unit to which the Junkers belonged was confirmed by Willborn as being 10(Flieger)/Ln. Regt.40 - not 1(Flieger/Ln.Regt.40. The piece is largely based on what they told me.

I tracked down a copy of 'Jägerblatt' (08/1984), read Woffen's account and reluctantly came to the conclusion that it referred to a separate incident - though there were some similarities. Willborn, however, had maintained from the start that they were separate incidents! Incidentally, Stig, I believe I said that they were 'separate incidents'; I didn't say 'same day'. Thus, as far as I can see, the Spitfire pilots did not fail to see they were dealing with two aircraft - because they weren't.

Laurent. Sherk said that Curry, Murray and himself had been waiting on stand-by for 2-3 days for the order to attack the ammo train at 'Charing Cross'. When the order came - on 29 Sept.'42 - Sherk said that they 'flew West at low level along the Quattra Depression, then North to the coast. 'We flew up and down the line at low level but there was no train.' Then they saw the Ju.52. Thus I don't know where Moulson got his information from but it differs markedly from that of Sherk - and Sherk was there.

Bill Norman
(www.billnorman.co.uk)

[Laurent Rizzotti]

A fellow searcher sent me copies of the ORB of 145 and 601 Sqn for this day, and both confirm that the train looked for was not seen, and that only the Ju 52 was attacked. The ORB of 145 Sqn describes in detail the path of the trio searching for the train and does not include any ground attack.

I wonder what was the source used for the book "The Millionaires' Squadron: The Remarkable Story of 601 Squadron and the Flying Sword" but this part of the story seems to be false.

A last question: the 601 Sqn ORB says that Sherk force landed in "Quattara Depression Square 8423 Matruh Sheet." Can someone convert this into a longitude/latitude position ? I know of a converter for European positions, but it did not cover Africa.

Best regards

[bill norman]

Laurent, I contacted Ray Sherk after your posting dated 30 Sept. He told me that he had read Moulson's book but had made no comment re. the 'errors' at the time. He is of the opinion that that train attack featured in Moulson's book occurred sometime after Sept.29 1942.
Bill Norman (webpage: www.billnorman.co.uk)