Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22nd December 2007, 00:19
brianx13's Avatar
brianx13 brianx13 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Boston, MA - USA
Posts: 43
brianx13 is on a distinguished road
Me 109's or Fw 190's?

I have conflicting reports on which fighters attacked a particular B-17 raid. The raid was the 384th BG / 544 BS from Grafton Underwood and the target was Villacoublay, France. It was June 26, 1943. The bombers left at 4:00 PM (1600 hrs). There was not much flak (weather problems) but the fighters showed up just fine. They must have gotten to my grandfathers plane (42-30031) early because they had just started their run on the target and two engines were in flames. The EE report lists both FW's (typed in side column) and Me109's (handwritten by my grandfather). Maybe both planes attacked, I am not sure. I am trying to find the ones that shot the B-17 down and the fighters that were shot down by grandfather (the Me 109's). The idea is put the events of June 26th into a timeline as to how these two groups ended up in the skies over France one fateful day. I have had some help from this forum already and if I can figure this out I beleive it will aid them further. I hope I have listed everything needed for the puzzle. I have the plane's crash site as:

"F-RAGAI'NE. BEZU. la.FORET EURE.FRANCE"

6km west of Gisors / ā 6 km ā l'ouest de Gisors : according to B17-france.org (also lists FW 190's as the attackers).

Thanks again,
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22nd December 2007, 01:47
Heuser Heuser is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 423
Heuser is on a distinguished road
Re: Me 109's or Fw 190's?

Hi Brian,

according to Bishop / Hey, a/c 42-30031 was damaged on No. 2 engine and rudder by Flak, before fighters knocked out No. 1 engine. The crashplace is given with "Bernouville near Gisors, between Rouen and Beauvais."

Here are some possible claimants of this a/c, if it was not listed as "Flak"-claim:


26.06.43 Ofw. Willi Stratmann 12./JG 2 B-17 �� 0155 / 05 Ost: 6.000 m

26.06.43 Fw. Martin Brendel 1./JG 2 B-17 �� 15 km. E. Lisieux: 6.000 m

26.06.43 Ltn. Fritz Karch 6./JG 2 B-17 �� Flugplatz St. Gâtien: 7.ooo m

26.06.43 Ofw. Immerl 2./JG 105 B-17 �� CE 4: 2.000 m.

26.06.43 Maj. Josef Priller Stab/JG 26 B-17 �� Le Tréport-Dieppe: 7.000 m.

26.06.43 Ofw. Kurt Goltzsch 5./JG 2 B-17 �� östl. Dieppe: 6.500 m

Hope this helps

Heuser
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22nd December 2007, 02:09
brianx13's Avatar
brianx13 brianx13 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Boston, MA - USA
Posts: 43
brianx13 is on a distinguished road
Re: Me 109's or Fw 190's?

It does and I appreciate your assistance. Is it listed anywhere which German planes were lost that day as well?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22nd December 2007, 14:58
Heuser Heuser is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 423
Heuser is on a distinguished road
Re: Me 109's or Fw 190's?

11./JG 26 lost one Bf 109 G-3 (Serial No. 16253) in combat with the fighter escort near Dieppe, Lt. Gottfried Schmidt bailed out.

Further JG 2 lost at least three a/c, but I've no reason listed for two of them. The third one was also lost in combat with P-47.

No idea about losses of other units.

Regards

Heuser
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 24th December 2007, 20:07
Andy Saunders Andy Saunders is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South East England
Posts: 1,337
Andy Saunders is on a distinguished road
Re: Me 109's or Fw 190's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianx13 View Post
I have conflicting reports on which fighters attacked a particular B-17 raid. The raid was the 384th BG / 544 BS from Grafton Underwood and the target was Villacoublay, France. It was June 26, 1943. The bombers left at 4:00 PM (1600 hrs). There was not much flak (weather problems) but the fighters showed up just fine. They must have gotten to my grandfathers plane (42-30031) early because they had just started their run on the target and two engines were in flames. The EE report lists both FW's (typed in side column) and Me109's (handwritten by my grandfather). Maybe both planes attacked, I am not sure. I am trying to find the ones that shot the B-17 down and the fighters that were shot down by grandfather (the Me 109's). The idea is put the events of June 26th into a timeline as to how these two groups ended up in the skies over France one fateful day. I have had some help from this forum already and if I can figure this out I beleive it will aid them further. I hope I have listed everything needed for the puzzle. I have the plane's crash site as:

"F-RAGAI'NE. BEZU. la.FORET EURE.FRANCE"

6km west of Gisors / ā 6 km ā l'ouest de Gisors : according to B17-france.org (also lists FW 190's as the attackers).

Thanks again,
Brian
Brian

Following our exchanges and PM's regarding "Jane" I was amazed to read this query of yours!

For a while, a couple of years ago, I lived just seven or eight km's from here and researched a number of crashes in the area. I know there is a photo of the crash and I think I can put you in touch with people who may be able to help you. I dont know the exact crash location, but it wouldnt be hard to find out!

PM me.

Andy Saunders
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fate of some Fw 190s Eric Larger Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 8th March 2007 13:23
Spitfire losses January 22nd, 1943 Jochen Prien Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 5 14th September 2006 01:35
Fw 190s of 10./ZG 1 Nick Beale Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 17th April 2006 01:15
FW 190's wreck in Normandy nadiarnaud Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 5 19th May 2005 08:48
The remarkable William Tex Ash, 24 March '42 Brendan Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 4th February 2005 18:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Š2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net