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  #11  
Old 12th February 2018, 16:09
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: 92 Squadron Battle of Britain Claims - July 10th 1940

Thanks for that, Tim

Not that source then!

I'll have to start digging deeply!

Cheers
Brian
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  #12  
Old 12th February 2018, 22:23
Smithy Smithy is offline
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Re: 92 Squadron Battle of Britain Claims - July 10th 1940

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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Thanks for that, Tim

Not that source then!

I'll have to start digging deeply!

Cheers
Brian
You're welcome Brian.

In truth I'm a bit flummoxed about where that info regarding 92 and the 10th could have come from. I've had a bit of a scuffle around with things but they just don't fit. Howard Hill didn't get a He111 until the 15th September when he bagged two by himself confirmed, these being his only claims for 111s. Allan Wright did have a shared He111 but that was on the 14th August with Desmond "Bill" Williams. Sounds like this might be one of those inevitable little errors that sneak under the radar.

By the way, I'm another fan as well so do please keep the books and research coming!

Cheers,

Tim
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  #13  
Old 12th February 2018, 23:13
gedburke3 gedburke3 is offline
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Re: 92 Squadron Battle of Britain Claims - July 10th 1940

All,
I remain convinced that this He111 reference relates to a flight earlier in the day (11am) on 10th July and made by PO's Wright and Williams.
Williams combat report details an attack on a He111.
Gerry
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  #14  
Old 12th February 2018, 23:44
Smithy Smithy is offline
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Re: 92 Squadron Battle of Britain Claims - July 10th 1940

Hi Gerry,

That's hugely interesting. Can you confirm that Williams's combat report is an actual official Form F Combat Report document? If so then that obviously might mean the IO made a bit of a balls up with the ORB record which could have rippled down over time. It would be great if we could work this out.

Tim
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  #15  
Old 13th February 2018, 00:25
gedburke3 gedburke3 is offline
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Re: 92 Squadron Battle of Britain Claims - July 10th 1940

Yes. It is his official combat report for July 10th 1940.
Email me at gedburke3ATyahooDOTcoDOTuk and I will send you a copy.
Regards
Gerry
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  #16  
Old 13th February 2018, 01:06
Smithy Smithy is offline
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Re: 92 Squadron Battle of Britain Claims - July 10th 1940

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Yes. It is his official combat report for July 10th 1940.
Email me at gedburke3ATyahooDOTcoDOTuk and I will send you a copy.
Regards
Gerry
Hi Gerry,

Thank you so much for the kind offer and I have duly sent an email off to you right now. Inside of which I have also mentioned a possible reason for an error with the ORB arising from 92's IO!

Best,

Tim
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  #17  
Old 13th February 2018, 13:54
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: 92 Squadron Battle of Britain Claims - July 10th 1940

Hi guys

That's most interesting.

Although I haven't located my original notes (probably disposed of), I was going to mention that I believed some information would have been extracted from Air16/960 (Combats & Casualties). Whilst these daily reports do not provide names, they do report squadron claims for the day.

Many moons ago, when I first 'discovered' the file, I spent many hours handwriting the copious notes into an exercise book (copies of all my notes for 1940 were sent to John Foreman, who used them in his Fighter Command Claims book).

Having found the Heinkel claim in Air16/690, I would have then checked the ORB for names, only to find no combat recorded, but would have noted the names of the pilots on that particular sortie! Speculation now but probably correct.

Cheers
Brian
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  #18  
Old 13th February 2018, 21:37
Smithy Smithy is offline
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Re: 92 Squadron Battle of Britain Claims - July 10th 1940

Hi Gerry and Brian,

Firstly, thanks Gerry once again for sending a copy of Bill's CR which certainly does show that Green Section of 92 engaged the enemy and claimed something unconfirmed - the text in many places is not entirely clear due to this being not the crispest copy in the NA. Sometimes you forget the most obvious but I'd forgotten to check Wynn's MotBoB which has Bill claiming an He111 damged on the 10th July. Bill's CR talks about white smoke coming out of the starboard engine after one of his attacks so the EA must be either a Me110, Do17, Ju88 or He111.

As I mentioned to Gerry in my email, Tom Wiese was 92's beloved IO and although he was well liked he was notorious for how awful his English was (he was Norwegian). Geoff Wellum said after catching up with Tom again in 1976 that his English was no better than in 1940 and said, "I hope he wrote our reports better than he spoke." So I certainly wouldn't put it beyond the bounds of possibility that Tom might have been a bit lax or even erroneous in his official record keeping and this incident is one of those.

Cheers,

Tim
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  #19  
Old 14th February 2018, 20:34
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: 92 Squadron Battle of Britain Claims - July 10th 1940

Thanks guys

Obviously an error on my part regarding names but basically correct!

What a relief!

Cheers
Brian
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  #20  
Old 14th February 2018, 22:03
Smithy Smithy is offline
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Re: 92 Squadron Battle of Britain Claims - July 10th 1940

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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Thanks guys

Obviously an error on my part regarding names but basically correct!

What a relief!

Cheers
Brian
One interesting thing with Bill's CR Brian is that it doesn't appear to mention another member of his section also attacking, he makes three or so attacks and then the aircraft spirals down into cloud, whereupon he losses it and returns to base. I'm interested where the shared claim for this comes from, perhaps there's another CR which existed or exists from another of Bill's section or even flight also detailing attacking this EA.

One thing is for sure though Brian you're certainly correct that 92 attacked an EA around 1100 on the 10th July!

Cheers,

Tim
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