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  #11  
Old 28th November 2017, 21:55
Roundway Roundway is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe activity west of Brest 19 December 1942?

Thank you for all your comments, gentlemen.

Chris. There were no radio transmissions according to the F1180; it simply records A/C missing in transit with 11 casualties.

Weather is certainly another option; the chart at the time the aircraft left Portreath showed an active frontal system approaching 10W. From the information available I'd estimate the freezing level to be 8000-10000 ft, so icing might have had a role to play.

If the F1180 is to be believed although the pilot had 129 hours on type, and the co-pilot 350, neither had any night-flying experience on type - which seems a little strange.

Col. I suspect that all RAF/RAFVR personnel were listed as members of 271 Squadron for the duration of the flight irrespective of their normal unit. F/O W M Henderson (132361), for example, was a meteorologist en route to a Mediterranean posting. If that is the case then the CWGC's error is in listing Cashmore's death as being on the 21st instead of the 19th.

Dan. Thanks for the additional information about Lt Andrew Jervis Hawkins, RN.

Brian
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  #12  
Old 29th November 2017, 07:18
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is online now
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Re: Luftwaffe activity west of Brest 19 December 1942?

Rainer,

I had already checked your passenger list for the S.S."Strathallan". I also checked the passenger listing, here:

http://thestrathallan.com/PDF/Crew_%...justed2017.pdf

I couldn't find mention of Cashmore in either of them, hence his prescence on the Strathallan was mentioned merely as a possibility.

I did not have access to the F1180, that Brian quotes from, which mentions 11 casualties aboard Harrow K7011. Most of the references I had seen mentioned 10 casualties, ie 4 crew & 6 passengers. What swayed my judgement a little was the fact that the CWGC quoted the date of death for Cashmore as 21 December, 1942, plus the fact that there was at least two members (Alf BLACKETT & Norman LENNOX), of No.2771 RAF Sqn Regt on the Strathallan.

I have a open mind on the matter, if Cashmore is proven to have been aboard K7011, that's fine by me.

Col.

Last edited by Col Bruggy; 1st December 2017 at 04:04.
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  #13  
Old 29th November 2017, 19:09
Roundway Roundway is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe activity west of Brest 19 December 1942?

Col

The 271 Squadron ORB is not a great deal of help in respect of the total number of bodies on board K7011 when it left Portreath.

The history of the flight starts at 1445 hours on 9 December when K7011 left Doncaster to reposition at Hendon. On the 11th it left Hendon at 1400 hours, bound for Portreath carrying 6 passengers and 300 lbs of kit.

When it left Portreath on the 19th the load was the same, 6 passengers and 300 lbs of kit.

So the crucial question as to whether there were 10 or 11 bodies on board revolves round the number of crew members - 4 or 5. There was a discussion about this on RAF Commands nine years ago, but no answer was forthcoming
http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...ey-Page-Harrow

I've tried finding a definitive answer on the Internet, but every item concentrates on the five-man crew required for the bomber version of the type

The F1180 for K7011 names two pilots, S/L C A Brown and Flt Lt E T Halley; there would certainly have been a navigator and wireless operator, but what would a fifth man have done?

Whatever, if the manifest records six passengers and the F1180 records 11 casualties, there should have been five crew.

The only additional information provided by the ORB is Aircraft reported missing vide No 1 OADU signal T.O.O. 1000 hours 21 December 1942.

Probably a long shot, but I'll order copies of the relevant pages from Kew.

Brian
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  #14  
Old 29th November 2017, 19:56
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Chris Goss Chris Goss is online now
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Re: Luftwaffe activity west of Brest 19 December 1942?

I will ask AHB to look at Cas Cards
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  #15  
Old 29th November 2017, 21:35
Roundway Roundway is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe activity west of Brest 19 December 1942?

Thank you, Chris. In that case I'll hold fire.

Edit. I've amended Henderson's rank to P/O. The CWGC has him as F/O, but in the LG He was only commissioned P/O eight days before K7011 left Portreath.

Brian
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  #16  
Old 30th November 2017, 13:48
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Re: Luftwaffe activity west of Brest 19 December 1942?

4 crew and 7 pax as per post 3. No more, no less according to Cas Cards
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  #17  
Old 30th November 2017, 22:20
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Re: Luftwaffe activity west of Brest 19 December 1942?

Thank you, Chris, 11 it is then.

Brian
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  #18  
Old 1st December 2017, 02:08
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Re: Luftwaffe activity west of Brest 19 December 1942?

Hello,
Odly AB's K file has 12 killed ?
Alex
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  #19  
Old 1st December 2017, 11:39
Roundway Roundway is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe activity west of Brest 19 December 1942?

There's always one awkward blighter!

Brian
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